[szore]

It's all subjective. Balanced will not make a bad dac sound good, and rca will not make a good dac sound bad. Depends on your ears and preference, hence why so many DACs exist. Otherwise we'd all hear the same things and agree.

I've had both DACs, and it really doesn't make a huge difference unless the dac has a power difference in the output. XLR can also make some amps sound "hot" if they have a higher voltage output (for example Dave has a 6v out via XLR iirc. Putting that connection into an amp that is already a bit forward would not sound good. It's been my personal experience that system matching is key.

Also, start at what comes from the wall, and work your way outward.

Outlet, power cords, source, dac, interconnects, amp, cable, headphones. With potentially a power conditioner in there as well. Despite all the bs you hear on the web, it absolutely makes a difference.

I thoroughly agree, the power cords and transformer and element H card and interconnects all come together with profound improvements in sound. Even my computer has a Odin2 power cord, also one on my dac and amp, and each cord made a quauntum improvement in the sound.

 

[Atriya]

In solid state often single ended vs balanced makes much less of a difference but with tube amps if you can you should probably use the balanced inputs if it is a balanced amp

In the opposite situation: I have a SE integrated tube amp that accepts balanced input via XLR, which it then converts to SE in the preamplification stage, claiming to do so in a "tube-coupled" way that is "without voltage loss".

Since balanced->SE conversion usually comes with voltage loss, I assume the preamp tubes are somehow being used to re-amplify the signal after conversion.

 

[agisthos]

The late Charles Hanson of Ayre once said single ended versions of their amplifier circuits always sounded better than balanced. This was coming from a company that would not even sell a component with single ended input/outputs, it was XLR or nothing. But once you take it off the testbench and put it all in one box with power supply so close - you get all the noise issues and balanced circuit is the way to go for practicality sake.

 

[Lucus]

From my experience with a Denafrips Ares II DAC:
I first ran it via RCA into a Yamaha A-S801.
Then I got a balanced Yamaha integrated, and updated to XLR interconnects.

The difference is there, and of course XLR is better -- so yes, technically you "waste" some of the DAC's potential by running it via RCA.
On the other hand... so what? It still sounds so much better than other DACs, and you have a good reason to upgrade to a balanced Amp in the future...

The basic tonal balance, and what makes the sound signature of a (Denafrips) R2R DAC are there regardless if connected via RCA or XLR.

I do not quite agree: It sounded better because you have implemented a full symetrical setup, not because of the DAC and/or the amp. If you plug a symetrical DAC via RCA to your asymetrical amp, you will have the sound your amp is intended to give, no more, no less...It will not "degrade" or lower the sound of your DAC in anyway.
And true, some prefer the sound of an asymetrical setup: More transparent, "musical" in a way (if this word means something). A symetrical set up may give you a more "hifish" sound.
But as always, it is a matter of association, synergies and your own taste....

 

[Whazzzup]

I believe the question of balanced dacs and unbalanced dacs, has eluded this forum. Most dacs have rca se out and xlr balanced out. If you leap frog to a superior topographic balanced amp, more throttle better imagery. BUT
dacs can be single ended like my chord TT which i love balanced out to my wa33 elite. Now TT is not balanced and the signal is converted to balanced through an analogue component, technically less pure, but organically way superior. so are balanced topography dacs better?

So the question should be 1) are balanced or unbalanced dacs better or worse for powering balanced or unbalanced amps?

 

[medon]

I do not quite agree: It sounded better because you have implemented a full symetrical setup, not because of the DAC and/or the amp.

Here we fully agree.

If you plug a symetrical DAC via RCA to your asymetrical amp, you will have the sound your amp is intended to give, no more, no less...It will not "degrade" or lower the sound of your DAC in anyway.

Here I disagree.
It has to do with the way Denafrips DACs (and maybe others) are "wired".
In case you use RCA on a Denafrips R2R DAC, only half of the R2R resistors are in the signal path. Correct me on that, if I'm wrong.
... assuming this is true, then you will inevitably have less resolution and higher noise floor with the RCA connected Denafrips DAC. If this still sounds better to your ears is up to you. Why? b/c tolerances in resistors will be halved by doubling them and putting out a symmetrical signal.

 

[sygnus21]

I do not quite agree: It sounded better because you have implemented a full symetrical setup, not because of the DAC and/or the amp.
And true, some prefer the sound of an asymetrical setup: More transparent, "musical" in a way (if this word means something).

Here we fully agree.

If you plug a symetrical DAC via RCA to your asymetrical amp, you will have the sound your amp is intended to give, no more, no less...It will not "degrade" or lower the sound of your DAC in anyway.

Here I disagree.
It has to do with the way Denafrips DACs (and maybe others) are "wired".

Not sure what you guys mean by "symmetrical" here (yes, I know what the word means), but to me symmetry is synergy - everything working in harmony to create a greater sum. If your gear is designed to run in balanced why configure for single ended? If you buy a headphone amp designed for balanced out, and instead us single ended headphones, you're sort sacrificing performance. Here synergy is making sure your headphones are also balanced to gain a greater experience.

In case you use RCA on a Denafrips R2R DAC, only half of the R2R resistors are in the signal path. Correct me on that, if I'm wrong.
... assuming this is true, then you will inevitably have less resolution and higher noise floor with the RCA connected Denafrips DAC. If this still sounds better to your ears is up to you. Why? b/c tolerances in resistors will be halved by doubling them and putting out a symmetrical signal.

In simplifying things (and in my opinion), in the end it comes down to how the amp is designed - Is it designed to be used single ended or balanced?

Denalfrips's gear is designed to be used in a balanced configuration. I'll do single ended, but its suit is balanced. This doesn't mean balanced is better; here it simply means Denafrips prefers balanced use. Single ended systems can sound just as good as balanced if that's how their design strength. Schiit makes some great single ended gear.

As for the inclusion of RCA jacks on the Pontus DAC along with the XLR jacks, be aware those are more convenience for those not having XLR connectivity. Denafrips also recommends either XLR or RCA outputs, not both. Perhaps that's what you mean when you say, "only half of the R2R resistors are in the signal path"?

I highly doubt just using the RCA outputs alone would disable half the resisters.

But as always, it is a matter of association, synergies and your own taste....

Completely agree.

My two cents.

 

[szore]

Just lurking but isnt balanced better always? Lower noise, better dynamics, more power... I know lower priced gear dont do balanced but my Jot2 only cost $400 and sounds phenomenal driving my lovely Arya Stealth from the Ares 2 R2R DAC.

 

[Whazzzup]

Just lurking but isnt balanced better always? Lower noise, better dynamics, more power... I know lower priced gear dont do balanced but my Jot2 only cost $400 and sounds phenomenal driving my lovely Arya Stealth from the Ares 2 R2R DAC.

No there's no noise difference. balanced is just twice the power. Given lengths of cable run is really the only advantage. But this increase in power when not controlling for volume, does/can improve dynamics and imagery.
so i prefer balanced for this reason.

 

[szore]

No there's no noise difference. balanced is just twice the power. Given lengths of cable run is really the only advantage. But this increase in power when not controlling for volume, does/can improve dynamics and imagery.
so i prefer balanced for this reason.

I thought any line noise was cancelled out via the balanced circuit somehow...hmmm ok thanks for that!

 

[medon]

Maybe have a look at Goldensound's measurements of an ARES II, see https://goldensound.audio/2021/07/13/denafrips-ares-2-measurements-and-review.

There's two PDF test reports provided, one with single-ended / RCA, one with XLR / balanced.

Take a look at the small sine wave input and the jagginess and tell me that the RCA looks better. And sounds better.

Cheers!