dac withouth dsp, mainthing: low latency to drive desk-speakers(or active speakers?)

[o0Julia0o]

hi,

i am searching a dac(with amplifier) for PC-Gaming. Of course, i hear music, that i do over Headphone mainly - but sometimes with speakers. So i have a gaming-headphone(AKG 701) but i wan´t to buy another one in future(now now) only for music. So i need Speakers. A 2.1-System. I have to desks. The first has 29,53inch space to the hear-position. And 7,87inch to the wall behind him. And to the wall sided to him, 7,87inch. Behing the hear-position are 4,5meter. All 4 walls are cotton-paper. The ceiling is out of wood - the floor out of carpet. 24m².
 
The other desk has 38,6inch to the hear-position. And to the side >1meter and to the back >1m, too. An 1 meter behind the hear-position. The same is for the subwoofer - which should stand below the desks. The 4 walls are out of wood, like the ceiling. The floor out of tiling. 23m². In the first setup the sub is standing 4,73inch beside the wooden desk-leg(it´s one massive wood plank).
 
Gibt es einen guten 2.1 DAC - passende Boxen für meine Schreibtische? Gerine Latenz ist mir wichtig. Werde erst einmal nur einen Schreibtisch ausstatten. Wenn ich mich so umgucke kostet solch ein System ca. DAC(300€) + Verstärker(600€) + Boxenpaar(700€) + Sub(700€) = 2300€. Und dann habe ich immer noch kein 2.1-System sondern 2.0. Oder kann ich das mit einem 2.0-System realisieren - dass ich den Sub abtrenne von den Sateliten... aber ohne Latenz zuverlieren, dann lieber ein bischen Geld auf den DAC drauftun!?
 
Does there exists a good 2.1 DAC - suitable speakers for my desks? I care about a low latency of the whole system. I will buy only one system for now(have to save some money for the second). A complete system costs a lot, it think. I read about: dac(300€) + amplifier(600€) + speakers(700€) + sub(700€) = 2300€. But for a 2.0-System - not a 2.1-DAC. Or is it possible to drive a 2.0-DAC with sub? But i don´t wan´t to make the latency go up. Then i will spend some money more, to get a 2.1-DAC.
 
Unfortunately opticalt things are important to me, too. I like real wood(bright) or white speakers or out of metal(bright). The other components, too. But i think they are small and could be hidden - the speakers not. I am livin in germany - maybe important for electricity-things.
 
what is important to me:
-low latency-system
-speakers & Headphone-sound switchable without unplugging the whole system(plug in headphone is o.k.)
-good microphoneamplfier (i have a 3,5mm microphon) would be a very nice extra. (i wouldn´t like to run an extra adc on the usb-line - cause of latency)
-w-lan, bluetooth etc. i don´t want/ should be dactivateable completely

what is important to me:
-dsp, like effects, etc. - i trust the game-programmer & play the sound like they mean it
 
my system
microphon:
http://www.modmic.com/collections/modmic/products/modmic-4-0
headphone:
http://www.akg.com/de/p/k701
motherboard:
http://www.asus.com/en/Motherboards/Z170-PRO-GAMING
 
thank you very much
 
Julia

 

[PurpleAngel]

What is your over all budget for the external DAC/headphone amplifier and speakers (2.0 or 2.1)?
we can assume your located in Germany?
 
If I had a budget for around 300 Euros for a 2.0 studio monitor setup.
I would be checking out the JBL LSR305 studio monitors.
http://www.thomann.de/gb/jbl_lsr_305.htm
 
For the external DAC/amp.
Get a Sound blaster Z sound card (OEM is fine) and an external DAC with optical input.
And a headphone amplifier that also comes with a separate line-output, for a 2.0 or 2.1 speaker (studio monitor) setup.
So the setup would be SB-Z > (optical) DAC > Head amp

 

[o0Julia0o]

thank you PurpleAngel,
 
yes i am from germany - so the components must work with the german electricity-things. The budget is about 2300€, als wrote. For the complete 2.1-System with DAC, Amplifier, ADC for the microphone. The second system for the second desk, i will buy in the future.
 

Originally Posted by PurpleAngel /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
http://www.thomann.de/gb/jbl_lsr_305.htm

hm.. i hate black.

 

[deusex3]

Originally Posted by PurpleAngel /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Get a Sound blaster Z sound card (OEM is fine) and an external DAC with optical input.
And a headphone amplifier that also comes with a separate line-output, for a 2.0 or 2.1 speaker (studio monitor) setup.
So the setup would be SB-Z > (optical) DAC > Head amp

This is the worst decision for Hi-Fi Sound, bcs SB-Z have only 12.000MHz Clock which converted to X*44.1 or X*48 by PLL, it vastly increasing jitter , then signal transmitted by S/PDIF , which also significantly increase jitter of signal.
Better use PC -> USB async support DAC
For example DAC-X8  http://www.ebay.com/itm/GUSTARD-DAC-X8-AD1955-DAC-USB-Asynchronous-Decoder-24Bit-192KHz-Soft-Control-/121788227819
In this case the Sub shall have hi level inputs to connect in parallel with speakers to power amplifier.
I think there is no need in Microphone amp ,so connect directly to motherboard.

 

[StudioSound]

  This is the worst decision for Hi-Fi Sound, bcs SB-Z have only 12.000MHz Clock which converted to X*44.1 or X*48 by PLL, it vastly increasing jitter , then signal transmitted by S/PDIF , which also significantly increase jitter of signal.
Better use PC -> USB async support DAC
For example DAC-X8   http://mytaofocus.com/shop/item.php?id=17169157758#28007225373   ( "color: black" mean that is with amplifier)
In this case the Sub shall have hi level inputs to connect in parallel with speakers to power amplifier.
I think there is no need in Microphone amp ,so connect directly to motherboard.

You need a sound card for good headphone audio in PC games.
A generic USB DAC like you are suggesting won't have any virtual surround processing.
There are USB Sound Blasters available, though I would expect latency to be lower with a PCIe card and an S/PDIF connection.
 
If you play old games, you need to get hold of a 20K1 or 20K2 X-Fi card for hardware EAX processing. (sounds better than the emulated EAX on newer cards)

 

[Roseval]

   
hm.. i hate black.

What about white? 
http://www.adam-audio.com/en/multimedia/products/artist-5/description
As they are active speakers, you don't need a poweramp.
You can expand it to 2.1: http://www.adam-audio.com/en/multimedia/products/sub7/description

 

[PurpleAngel]

  This is the worst decision for Hi-Fi Sound, bcs SB-Z have only 12.000MHz Clock which converted to X*44.1 or X*48 by PLL, it vastly increasing jitter , then signal transmitted by S/PDIF , which also significantly increase jitter of signal.
Better use PC -> USB async support DAC
For example DAC-X8  http://www.ebay.com/itm/GUSTARD-DAC-X8-AD1955-DAC-USB-Asynchronous-Decoder-24Bit-192KHz-Soft-Control-/121788227819
In this case the Sub shall have hi level inputs to connect in parallel with speakers to power amplifier.
I think there is no need in Microphone amp ,so connect directly to motherboard.

 
The OP is big on PC gaming, so i'm assuming that means FPS gaming.
USB bypasses the sound card features, like headphone surround sound.
So if he want to be able to use headphone surround sound, he can't use USB.
 
Unless the OP is fine with gaming in stereo audio, then USB would be a good choice.

 

[o0Julia0o]

  What about white? 
http://www.adam-audio.com/en/multimedia/products/artist-5/description
As they are active speakers, you don't need a poweramp.
You can expand it to 2.1: http://www.adam-audio.com/en/multimedia/products/sub7/description

wow nice. But can i connect them without usb to the PC. USB will have more latency then jacks. I don´t wan´t to use the dac of the speakers, only the amplifier.

 

[Tablix]

Here is my recommendation for blowing your budget, https://www.thomann.de/intl/basket.html ,all from a german supplier and with lovely wood finish.  I own these speakers in the classic black and dont use a sub, and to me they dont really need it unless you demand HUGE bass.  The 7"driver means they produce damn good mids-lows, the only thing they lack is the huge thump of a sub, which in most situations is annoying rather than beneficial unless you have a well isolated room. 
 
The audio interface is just one option and there are hundreds of DAC  options, but as previously stated a dedicated sound card for positional audio may be required for FPS gaming and positional sound.  I use a focusrite 2i4 as a dac on my home pc, and an RME babyface for recording work.  I am recording and listening to audio so 2.0 is ideal for me, I use KRK rp6's for most casual listening but the ADAM speakers are damn good in terms of accuracy so use for all my recording/mixing/mastering.  I prefer to trust pro-audio recording interfaces over more consumer DAC's as I am more interested in total accuracy and demand the ability to plug in a decent mic or midi device in seconds.  Consumer based DAC's will also do the job just as well, but I honestly think you pay more than you actually need to.  
 
Word of warning thought the A7x are BIG, the 5" version may be more practical, and then spend some of that saving on a sub.  The budget you have is plenty to set yourself up with a very nice PC based system.  Other brands you may want to consider from the pro-recording world would be Genelec, Neumann, Dynaudio, Focal (the solo 6 come in a couple of wood finishes), KRK, or EVE audio. 
 
I would suggest you take your TOTAL budget, and spend 15-25% on the DAC (audio interface) then spend the rest on speakers, this is not 1995 any more and almost any dac over 150eur will give you perfectly good connectivity and sound with very low latency.   You want a little more versatility the id14 from audient is the next step up in their chain, other possible interfaces can be bought from RME, Focusrite, Native Instruments.
 
There is no perfect solution, just loads of options for you to decide from.  When I built my recording room a few years ago I spent nearly a year planning every single part of the room from floor covering to bass traps the desk and of course the computer itself, and what speakers I would buy.  Its worth doing lots of research and if possible physically testing all the equipment you want to buy.  
 
hope that helps

 

[o0Julia0o]

yes, that helps. Thank you very much. My room is well isolatet - i don´t disturb anyone... that´s why isolation is good for. Or for the sound i hear?
 
Quote:

  Here is my recommendation for blowing your budget, https://www.thomann.de/intl/basket.html

thank you - i can´t see you basket. I think you mean the: https://www.thomann.de/de/adam_a7x_se.htm?ref=search_rslt_adam+a+7x_369258_5 What does unbalanced out mean?

 

[PurpleAngel]

  thank you - i can´t see you basket. I think you mean the: https://www.thomann.de/de/adam_a7x_se.htm?ref=search_rslt_adam+a+7x_369258_5 What does unbalanced out mean?

 
Most audio connections are un-balanced (standard on regular consumer products).
 
Un-balanced is one positive signal and one grounding (return) connection.
A single RCA jack is usually an un-balanced connection.
 
A balanced connection is two positive signals and one ground (return) connection.
 
On the back of the Adam AX7, the single RCA jack is an un-balanced input on the monitor.
The XLR jack just below it, with the three input holes, is a balanced input
 
Think of the XLR balanced input as a more "professional" connection.

 

[o0Julia0o]

ah o.k., thank you - PurpleAngel. Can i connect my Onboard-Soundcart directly to the Adam7x? I have 2 3,5mm jack on my onboard-Soundchip(Realtek). One for front left, one for front right. The other side of the cable has to be RCA and goes into one Adam7x and the other Adam7x(left and right). So i can leave my Headphone connected. So i can switch the sound in software of the onboard-soundchip(only).