[imrazor]

Recently I posted a question about whether I should upgrade my sound card or headphones, and the answer was my headphones because my sound card already had a “fairly decent” DAC. The poster then mentioned the VIA Envy24. My understanding was that this was actually the DSP (digital signal processor) in my sound card. According to this article - http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/feb02/articles/delta410.asp – my sound card actually has an AKM AK4529 D-A converter, which I assume is the same thing as the DAC (digital-to-analog converter).
 
This leads to the question, what's the difference between these two chips, and which is more important? I think I grasp what a DAC does – it converts the digital signal coming from the computer (or maybe the DSP) into analog audio that's heard on phones or speakers. What's less clear is what the DSP does. I was always under the impression that the DSP is more important than the DAC, but all I hear on this forum is DAC, DAC and more DAC. Can someone shed some light on this?

 

[PurpleAngel]

If all your doing is music audio, then keep the current sound card, with it's 10 year old audio processor.
As the DAC effects audio quality and the audio processor is more needed for games (surround sound).

 

[imrazor]

  If all your doing is music audio, then keep the current sound card, with it's 10 year old audio processor.
As the DAC effects audio quality and the audio processor is more needed for games (surround sound).

Ah, that's the thing, I do play games quite a bit. However, positional audio has never had much of an effect on me, even in a theater with surround sound. Given that, I doubt Dolby Headphone would amaze me, especially with my HD280 Pros, which have about zero soundstage.
 
What you say about DSP being primary for positional audio makes sense, but I'm still confused by the emphasis placed on the DSP by most other sources, and the tremendous emphasis on the DAC at head-fi.org.
 
And thanks for helping to clear things up...

 

[PurpleAngel]

  Ah, that's the thing, I do play games quite a bit. However, positional audio has never had much of an effect on me, even in a theater with surround sound. Given that, I doubt Dolby Headphone would amaze me, especially with my HD280 Pros, which have about zero sound stage.
 
What you say about DSP being primary for positional audio makes sense, but I'm still confused by the emphasis placed on the DSP by most other sources, and the tremendous emphasis on the DAC at Head-fi.org.
 
And thanks for helping to clear things up...

Head-fi seems to be firstly about audio quality, which is the DAC and the headphone amplifier.
I'm of the opinion that people that listen to classical music and computer/console gamers live in two different worlds (and age groups)
I would assume the "other sources" are gamers.
 
Your Delta music/sound card uses the VIA (Envy24) VT1712 audio processing chip.
I believe the last VT1712 driver update was in 2010
 
In the future you decide you need a sound card upgrade, the Creative Sound Blaster Z (model SB1500), $95, seems like a good value.

 

[imrazor]

Now that I've read up on the HD558, they're looking like they would be good for both gaming and music. However, my Delta doesn't support positional audio or headphone virtualization. If I got the Asus Xonar DGX (~US$40) for games, could I use it side-by-side with my Delta for music? Or is the DGX's DAC equal to the one on the Delta?

 

[PurpleAngel]

  Now that I've read up on the HD558, they're looking like they would be good for both gaming and music. However, my Delta doesn't support positional audio or headphone virtualization. If I got the Asus Xonar DGX (~US$40) for games, could I use it side-by-side with my Delta for music? Or is the DGX's DAC equal to the one on the Delta?

DG/DGX comes with a decent headphone amplifier, would replace Delta, as the cards can not work together.
DG/DGX has a low headphone output impedance which helps with audio detail and the drivers are less then a year old.
The Xonar DG is $27 and there is a $10 mail in rebate (Amazon), the DG's CS4245 DAC chip is decent, would not claim the DACs are equal and you can sell off the Delta for a few dollars.

 

[imrazor]

the DG's CS4245 DAC chip is decent, would not claim the DACs are equal and you can sell off the Delta for a few dollars.

 
That's disappointing, I really like the audio quality I get out of the Delta. Is there anything else in the Xonar line that you'd consider the equal (or superior) to the Delta? Or would the difference be lost on my HD280 (hopefully soon to be HD558)?. Obviously you the like the Essence, but HD558 + Essence STX is outside of my budget.

 

[PurpleAngel]

   
That's disappointing, I really like the audio quality I get out of the Delta. Is there anything else in the Xonar line that you'd consider the equal (or superior) to the Delta? Or would the difference be lost on my HD280 (hopefully soon to be HD558)?. Obviously you the like the Essence, but HD558 + Essence STX is outside of my budget.

Get the Creative Sound Blaster Z (SB1500) sound card, $95.
Can't see the Essence STX offering any advantages for your current needs
HD558, $131.26
SB-Z, $95
plus any sale tax (shipping is free).
 
Sell off the HD280 and Delta.

 

[Logistics]

I have to jump in, here for the sake of up and coming Head-Fi newbies who want to jump into quality audio at a good price.

I recently acquired a Yamaha C-85, which is a highly-regarded preamp, in some circles. I realized I could use it as my headphone-amplifier, and got it hooked up to my X-Fi and ran my headphones off the Yamaha. Night and day difference, but I wanted to see if I could squeeze any more quality out of my rig, so I dug out my old Delta 410, got it setup, and it's significantly better than the X-Fi. The soundstage is greater, and all kinds of minor details show up that didn't with the X-Fi.

Keep in mind though that the revision of the Envy24, which the 410 is equipped with is unique compared to other Env24's, such as the revision found on the Chaintech AV-710. It has greater adjustments than other cards, etc. So you're a step ahead if you find a Delta 410.

I was worried it wasn't going to work in my system because it has the old style PCI edge, with only a single slot, but it's running fine in my i5 system. Plus, M-Audio's site does not direct you, appropriately when searching for Win7 drivers for the 410, but the entire Delta family is wrapped into a unified driver, now.

Anyway, I highly recommend this card, even today as it is still superior to consumer cards.

 

[imrazor]

Actually, I still have the Delta 410 in my PC, but I only use it with Linux. I found a Windows driver for it somewhere, but found it to be unstable. According to the M-Audio's site, the most recent driver for the Delta 410 is for Vista, which is probably the one I was using with Win7. I've since upgraded to Windows 10, so I'm not sure the old Vista driver would even install.
 
I did purchase a Soundblaster Z for my PC, and it sounds great *except* that the audio it produces has an aggressive edge to it that is hard to describe. Under Linux, the old 410 sounds beautiful, with a smoother, more natural sound than the Soundblaster Z. Up until recently, Linux has not supported the SB Z, but recent updates have allowed it to start working. The Soundblaster sounds even better under Linux than Windows (no idea why, but Linux audio drivers have always sounded better to my ear for some reason.)
 
But overall I'd have to say I prefer the sound of the Soundblaster Z to the Delta 410. I've never had the chance to listen to an X-Fi, so I'm not sure what my experience would be. But if you could share where you got that driver, I'd like to give it a listen under Win 10.

 

[Logistics]

I'm almost positive it was this one: http://m-audio.com/support/download/drivers/delta-6.0.2-v5.10.0.5074

 

[GRUMPYOLDGUY]

DSP will handle all of the signal processing functions before the DAC stage. Filtering and EQ would probably be the two major things the DSP would be used for.

In terms of SQ, the DAC and the overall board design and layout will be the most important.

Sent from my E5803 using a highly trained, special forces carrier pigeon

 

[imrazor]

I'm almost positive it was this one: http://m-audio.com/support/download/drivers/delta-6.0.2-v5.10.0.5074

Yep, that's a Windows Vista driver and very old. I used it with Win7 for a while, but the sound system kept crashing. Restarting the Windows audio service would restore sound, but it got tiresome after a while. I'd be afraid to try it with Windows 10.
 
So I take it you never had any problems with that driver and Win7?

 

[Logistics]

Yep, that's a Windows Vista driver and very old. I used it with Win7 for a while, but the sound system kept crashing. Restarting the Windows audio service would restore sound, but it got tiresome after a while. I'd be afraid to try it with Windows 10.

So I take it you never had any problems with that driver and Win7?

Hasn't given me any trouble, yet. But I'm only listening--I'm not recording or doing anything that may use any of the cards' unique abilities.