DAC types, Sample rate conversion, advantages & disadvantages to each.
Mar 21, 2018 at 6:55 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 10

germanium

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Note this applies to all sources computer or otherwise.

Main type of DAC's

1. The original which is ladder type DAC's

These have a resister network of precision resisters for one for each bit level each representing 6db increase in output. early versions were 14-16 bit as available to consumers. These early DAC's had no digital filter & were filtered externally by an analog filter.

Advantage of this design was they were simple to design & when properly set up had very good sound though not necessarily great.

Later designs of these DAC's externally had a digital filter feeding them. Higher end versions of these DAC's sounded great when properly designed. It was about this time that 18-20 bit high precision chip DAC's also started to appear in which the resister networks were laser trimmed for extreme accuracy which did indeed contribute to their excellent sound. Earlier versions had quite gross errors in some cases where the laser trimming fixed this.

Disadvantages were that these DAC's were extremely prone to input jitter as well as gross nonlinear distortions in the lower end DAC chips.

Later versions of these DAC's moved the digital filter onto the DAC chip itself.

2.Delta-sigma I.E. 1 bit DAC's.

These DAC's were in some ways easier to design but in other ways more difficult.

These DAC's traded absolute amplitude linearity for time based amplitude linearity.

These got rid of the resistor ladder & used pulse density in order to achieve amplitude linearity. This is essentially the same as DSD used in SACD.

Advantages with this DAC type was that low level linearity was vastly improved in the lower price ranges. There were also less prone to input jitter due to sample rate conversion from low sample rates such as4 4.1 KHz up to as high 100MHz in current DAC's as as opposed to clock jitter. These pretty much all have internal digital filters.

Disadvantages were that They were more prone to clock jitter as the linearity is achieved through pulse density if those pulses were ill timed it could result in nonlinear behavior to a greater extent than ladder type converters since the ladder types linearity was not based on the clock but on the precision of it's ladder resistors. The higher the clock speed by the way the more important the clock jitter can be as an equally small deviation such as 100 picoseconds in clock represents a larger proportion in time shift at higher clock speeds.

3. Hybrid delta-sigma DAC's

Many complained that the pure delta-sigma DAC's did not seem to represent the full dynamics of the program material as well as the higher end ladder DAC's. To counter this the designers created hybrid delta-sigma DAC's that had 6 bits instead of only a single bit. These DAC's the lower levels were still represented by a single bit. From -24db upwards the signal was represented by a 6 bit ladder portion supposedly giving better high level dynamics which was to address the complaints of the loss of dynamics in the original delta-sigma DAC's. Most DAC's currently are of this design.

Advantage is that these DAC's have seemed at least to address the earlier complaints of pure delta-sigma DAC's

Disadvantage is that they are more costly to buy than pure delta-sigma DAC's but cheaper than high end ladder DAC's.

4. Field programmable gate array DAC's

These DAC's are basically micro computers that are being utilized as DAC's. They most likely are using the hybrid delta-sigma type of conversion & using much of the power for their digital filter configuration as well as some correction for distortion in the following analog stages.

Advantage is the manufacturer can easily upgrade the software for the DAC without the end user having to bring it in the DAC for servicing as there is no need to change any hardware. Changes in programing for the DAC could include better corrections for analog stage distorting & offering different digital filter types which they feel may improve the sound.

Disadvantage is that these DAC chips are extremely expensive as well as being very power hungry compared to other types of DAC's. These higher power draws can introduce higher levels of noise in the power supply. Most modern opamps deal pretty well with this though. Chord for example does the actual conversion to analog off chip using external array of flip-flops supposedly minimizing EMI crosstalk by physically separating these components.

A note on sample rate conversion

Almost all current DAC's do sample rate conversion of some type. Sample rate conversion when done properly can reduce or eliminate sensitivity to input jitter as being a factor in the sound quality of the DAC. The most robust of these is asynchronous sample rate conversion as the output no longer bears any timing relationship to the input sample rate.

Sample rate conversion has been proven to be transparent when properly done & can be converted back to the original sample rate with absolute zero loss proven by null testing.

Too many people think they are gaining something by not allowing sample rate conversion. Even if you prevent sample rate conversion leading up to the DAC most DAC's still convert sample rate internally. Most of them to an exact multiple but some do it to a multiple that is completely unrelated such as ESS Sabre DAC's. If done properly this is the most robust input jitter elimination technique.
 
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Mar 23, 2018 at 2:43 PM Post #3 of 10
Looking at the photos of the distortion characteristics it looks to me like the signal is being clipped hence the wide spectrum of high level distortion. This exactly what I would expect to see in such a situation. I do not see that sort of distortion in my tests. As with everything on the internet you have to take everything with a grain of salt. Not everything out there is correct & not everything even if correct has significant meaning to the real world of human hearing. Many people that complain of this resampling distortion have very sensitive IEM's, so sensitive in fact that they would be restricted to very low volume levels in output to prevent damage to hearing & as anyone knows who has been in this hobby for long enough digital reproduction before the advent of 24 bit audio had severe problems at low levels with distortion. Dither resolved most of that for 16 bit recordings but added white noise which of coarse highly sensitive IEM's would reveal as well.
 
Mar 27, 2018 at 4:26 AM Post #4 of 10
Are there any current latter DACs being used besides the schiit multibit products? Also is a multibit technology really this amazing thing that is a must have, or will a properly designed delta sigma/hybrid be as good or better?
 
Mar 29, 2018 at 11:36 AM Post #5 of 10
Are there any current latter DACs being used besides the schiit multibit products? Also is a multibit technology really this amazing thing that is a must have, or will a properly designed delta sigma/hybrid be as good or better?

Multibit with digital filters & hybrid delta-sigma designs are equivalent in sound quality however there may be slight differences in presentation which one may prefer over the other. Non oversampling DACs are always of the multibit design usually without any sort of filtering in designs of late anyway, not even analog filtering. These rely on the speakers & ears to do the final conversion from the ladder converters sample & hold circuit to the final smoothed analog presentation that we are supposed to hear. There are adherents to this design that say it is the best sounding. This I have my doubts about from a technical point of view but I have to say I never heard any of these. I have heard earlier designs that did have analog filters which were admittedly low end designs that left a lot to be desired sound wise. They sounded very mechanical & lacked any sort of depth. The one of the best designs I ever heard was a home modified unit with high end ladder 20 bit converters with 8X oversampling digital filters. This used laser trimmed ladder resistors & was quite expensive.
 
Mar 29, 2018 at 12:17 PM Post #6 of 10
Are there any current latter DACs being used besides the schiit multibit products? Also is a multibit technology really this amazing thing that is a must have, or will a properly designed delta sigma/hybrid be as good or better?

Yes, there are a few manufacturers relying on multibit R2r technology. To name a few:

- MSB
- Soekris
- Metrum
- Audio-GD
- Holo Audio

Multibit converters have their own pros and cons, like every other technology. They are inherently more prone to (audible), analogue like distortion than say, delta-sigma converters. Manufacturing/component tolerances have a big role in the resulting audio quality. I think it is safe to say that all 'proper' multibit converters feature fully balanced design.
 
Mar 29, 2018 at 1:08 PM Post #7 of 10
Multibit converters have their own pros and cons, like every other technology. They are inherently more prone to (audible), analogue like distortion than say, delta-sigma converters. Manufacturing/component tolerances have a big role in the resulting audio quality. I think it is safe to say that all 'proper' multibit converters feature fully balanced design.


Early multibit designs weren't balanced, man many of them weren't even true stereo designs but multiplexed designs that shared 1 DAC with both channels. These had about 90 degree phase shift between channels at high frequencies. In order to get true stereo you had to have 2 of these DAC chips. To get balanced stereo output from these DAC's you had to have 4 of these DAC chips.
 
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Mar 29, 2018 at 2:20 PM Post #8 of 10
Thanks for the info guys.
Yes, there are a few manufacturers relying on multibit R2r technology. To name a few:

- MSB
- Soekris
- Metrum
- Audio-GD
- Holo Audio

Multibit converters have their own pros and cons, like every other technology. They are inherently more prone to (audible), analogue like distortion than say, delta-sigma converters. Manufacturing/component tolerances have a big role in the resulting audio quality. I think it is safe to say that all 'proper' multibit converters feature fully balanced design.[/QUOTE

I’m curious what being balanced has to do with it? Are you just inferring that the non balanced versions aren’t well made? Or there’s some issue with the technology if it’s not balanced. I noticed the schiit multibit dacs(what I’m interested in) are almost all single ended, besides their highest end products.
 
Mar 29, 2018 at 2:55 PM Post #9 of 10
Thanks for the info guys.

I’m curious what being balanced has to do with it? Are you just inferring that the non balanced versions aren’t well made? Or there’s some issue with the technology if it’s not balanced. I noticed the schiit multibit dacs(what I’m interested in) are almost all single ended, besides their highest end products.

It is because of the inherent unlinear nature of R2r dac elements. If you use two of them, you can get more accurate audio signal by averaging. Some dacs have even four dac elements per channel, like MSB Select and Metrum Adagio. It seems using multiple elements is the de-facto recipe for better R2r dacs. You could also create a discrete build with high-precision resistors... but I don't know if even the best ones have lower tolerances than 0,005 % (which is of course already a stunningly good value). But it still leaves discrete R2r designs vulnerable for audible distortion.
 
Mar 30, 2018 at 4:36 AM Post #10 of 10
Laser trimming fixes most of the nonlinear behavior of ladder type DAC's but is not cheap.
 
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