DAC question
Jan 22, 2010 at 6:40 AM Thread Starter Post #1 of 11

Shark50521

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I have a Constantine USB plus and a pair of M-Audio Av40 speakers and an AV-123 x-head. Here is my problem. Whenever I have the dac running straight to the speakers I get a weird kind of noise/distortion when music is not playing. When I run the dac running to the x-head I get no distortion. I was using a RCA splitter so I could run the out of the dac to both my speakers and the xhead. With this setup, I now hear the same noise/distortion through my x-head even if the speaker is not on.This problem happens through usb/coax/optical so the initial connection is NOT the problem. Any thoughts on a different way to do things or the root of my problem would be greatly appreciated.
 
Jan 22, 2010 at 4:48 PM Post #2 of 11
Quote:

Originally Posted by Shark50521 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I have a Constantine USB plus and a pair of M-Audio Av40 speakers and an AV-123 x-head. Here is my problem. Whenever I have the dac running straight to the speakers I get a weird kind of noise/distortion when music is not playing. When I run the dac running to the x-head I get no distortion. I was using a RCA splitter so I could run the out of the dac to both my speakers and the xhead. With this setup, I now hear the same noise/distortion through my x-head even if the speaker is not on.This problem happens through usb/coax/optical so the initial connection is NOT the problem. Any thoughts on a different way to do things or the root of my problem would be greatly appreciated.


Do you have anything else to test the DAC with besides the speakers? Is the volume set to 100% everywhere in computer land? Tried a different cable to go straight to the speakers?
 
Jan 22, 2010 at 8:14 PM Post #4 of 11
When I use the dac and headphones through my x-head its fine. Its only the speakers that are doing it, I have however ran my headphones straight out of the DAC through the use of RCA to 1/8th and plugged directly in and it did it then also, but as soon as I run the headphones into an amp, the noise is stopped. I think I just might have a noisy dac but was hoping of ways to clean up the sound. I have ran it straight out of the wall and from a surge protector and it has done the same thing.
 
Jan 22, 2010 at 11:22 PM Post #5 of 11
I just went and picked up a ground loop isolator from RatShack and low and behold the noise is GONE. Not happy with having to use that RatShack cable as an interconnect but it does eliminate the problem. Is there anything else I can do to eliminate the ground loop?
 
Jan 23, 2010 at 12:39 AM Post #6 of 11
Quote:

Originally Posted by Shark50521 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I just went and picked up a ground loop isolator from RatShack and low and behold the noise is GONE. Not happy with having to use that RatShack cable as an interconnect but it does eliminate the problem. Is there anything else I can do to eliminate the ground loop?


There's the unsafe method (cheater plug) and then the expensive method (power filter).
 
Jan 23, 2010 at 5:26 AM Post #7 of 11
The ground loop isolator is the cheapest option, taking the noise out of the audio line. This noise usually comes from the power source and other items along the entire chain.

If you think of your power as a sine wave running down a horizontal axis, your components usually only care about the upper and lower peaks, they don't care whether the wave is centered on the axis or not. "Noise" however, is when that wave is off center. Further complicating things is that your components may wind up tugging this wave up and down (this is a simplified and not quite accurate view, but it will suffice). Making it worse is that you also have machine interference, which can distort that wave, but now we're getting ahead of ourselves.

A power/voltage isolator will clean up the noise at the power source, but it won't remove any inconsistencies further down the chain. It will try to bring that sine wave back to center before feeding it into your components.

A power conditioner actually tries to correct the sine wave itself, fixing inconsistencies since power rarely comes in at a perfect 120V/60Hz (for North America) from your wall.

A lot more confusion arises from the fact that this nomenclature is pretty haphazard and gets tossed around incorrectly (and just to cover my own butt, it's entirely possibly that I've got my definitions mixed up here too). From what I understand, a lot of "audiophile" grade power whatchamacallits all perform a combination power isolation and conditioning.

From your description, it sounded like you had a ground loop between your dac and speakers, and not between the dac and headphone amp. Trying to correct for ground loops is extremely irritating and oftentimes baffling. Sometimes plugging everything into the same power bar works, sometimes nothing seems to work. Sometimes it may be something unrelated in the room that's screwing it all up. Who knows.

A ground loop isolator is usually the easiest fix, since you're trying to fix it all at the final end. You have the cheap options like the radio shack RCA interconnect. There are the higher end pro audio solutions like DI boxes, but those are typically for balanced cabling (which I think will work with the AV40's actually).

Power isolators/conditioners/etc should work, but personally I have limited experience with them so I'd rather not give bad advice there. They are also typically much more expensive than the ground loop isolator/DI box method. Whether or not they work "better"... I can't say with any authority.

I've done some work in pro studios before, and even with all of the above in place we're still plagued by ground loops sometimes.
 
Jan 24, 2010 at 12:11 AM Post #9 of 11
Quote:

Originally Posted by somestranger26 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
There's the unsafe method (cheater plug) and then the expensive method (power filter).


Why do you propagate this nonsense? If a cheater plug is used and it is grounded using the connection provided there is no problem.
 
Jan 24, 2010 at 8:50 AM Post #10 of 11
Quote:

Originally Posted by mrarroyo /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Why do you propagate this nonsense? If a cheater plug is used and it is grounded using the connection provided there is no problem.


Because most people don't/won't properly ground the plug.
 

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