Mister Crash
100+ Head-Fier
- Joined
- Sep 8, 2006
- Posts
- 282
- Likes
- 73
Six months ago (strangely enough, exactly six months ago), I tried comparing my two DACs (a Channel Islands VDA-2 and an Electrocompaniet ECD-1) in a head-to-head competition. The results of this fracas can be found here:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f7/dac...cd-1-a-299431/
About three months ago, I took the plunge and ordered myself a Wadia 581i SE. After auditioning roughly a dozen CD players, this was the one that seemed to be the most magical. Despite the lofty price tag, I had to have it.
Background
The Wadia 581 SE is the latest "budget" CD player in the Wadia line. The word "budget" is a bit of a stretch here; the 581 SE has an MSRP of US$9,950. As far as I can tell, Wadia players use proprietary DAC chips and processing algorithms, so it's not easy to compare their specs to other DACs. For example, the manual for this player says that the digital resolution is 21 bits, which seems like an awfully strange number. There are three different DAC programs installed in the player, so if one of the algorithms doesn't suit you, you can try another. The player uses 32x oversampling. It has both balanced and single-ended analog outputs, and both of these can be used at the same time. The player also has a digital volume control, which allows it to be connected straight into a power amp (or for the headphone-conscious, straight into a pair of balanced headphones). Wadia also offers this model with digital inputs and outputs (the 581i SE) for US$11,450, which is the model that is used in this comparison. I've heard that the inclusion of the input board leads to a slight decrease in sound quality, but I needed the inputs. I am the original owner of this unit.
Setup
The Wadia was used as the transport for this comparison. For the first song, the Wadia's Toslink output was connected to the Electrocompaniet ECD-1's Toslink input and the ECD-1's Toslink output was connected to the Channel Islands VDA-2's Toslink input. Both of the Toslink connections were done with glass optical cables of the same make and the same length. For subsequent songs, the coaxial output of the Wadia was connected to one of the coaxial inputs of the ECD-1, and the coaxial output of the ECD-1 was connected to the VDA-2's coaxial input. Both of these coax connections were done with Monoprice coaxial cables of the same length. In short, the Wadia fed the signal to the ECD-1, which passed the signal on to the VDA-2.
Throughout the comparison, the Wadia was set up to use its regular DAC program (Algorithm A, also called DigiMaster v2.5). The volume on the Wadia was set to its maximum value so as to bypass the digital volume control.
The ECD-1 and VDA-2 were plugged in and turned on a couple hours before the comparison to give them some time to warm up. The Wadia had been on continuously.
Each of the DACs was used in single-ended mode (the Wadia and ECD-1 have balanced outputs, and the VDA-2 can be converted to a balanced output using a special adapter, but I don't have a balanced amplifier or headphone amp). The output from each of them was connected to a Zektor HDS 4.1 switch using Monoprice RCA cables. Unfortunately, I had two 6' pairs of cables and one 3' pair. The 3' pair went on the Wadia because it was closest to the switch.
Before I hooked up the DACs to the switch, I decided to add a little mystery to the process. I held the three pairs of identical-looking RCA cables in my hands, closed my eyes, and started to quickly switch the cables around with my hands. After a minute or two of this, I had absolutely no idea which cable was coming from which DAC. I then hooked the three sets of cables up to the switch, taking care not to see which cable was coming from which source. For the purposes of my comparison, they were simply #1, #2, and #3.
The output from the switch was then fed into my Audio-Technica HA5000 headphone amp, and I listened to the music with a pair of Audio-Technica W5000 headphones. I used the switch to change the inputs between songs (and occasionally during songs).
Testing
First song: A -少年A- from dj TAKA's Milestone album
I chose this song because I used it a lot in my quest for CD players. It starts off with a lot of separation between notes, but in the middle it switches to an incredibly fast and dense tapestry of synth. Towards the end, there are so many things happening in the song, it gets dizzying. It has very high frequencies, very low frequencies, and pretty much everything else in between. With certain set-ups, it sounds good, but with others, it crosses the line into moving and magical.
#2 had a lot of detail and a fairly clean background. It sounded like there might have been some smearing during the particularly fast sections of the song. #1 seemed to have a cleaner background than #2 and was a little sharper. #3 was very engaging, with deep, full bass and more punch.
Of the three, #3 was the most engaging, and was the only one where I felt chills.
Second song: Last Message from the beatmaniaIIDX 7th Style soundtrack
I like this song because it has a couple sections where the beat just starts and stops on a dime. The silence between the notes in these sections is great for comparing the attack and decay. This was the main piece that I used when I compared the attack and decay of my two units in my first DAC-off.
#3 had weighty bass and good speed, but was a little rough in one of the transitions. #2 had decent speed. #1 had lots of minute detail, and felt like it had the sharpest attack/decay.
All in all, I liked #1 the best in this one, followed closely by #3, and then #2.
Third song: Heart of Asia by Watergate
This is a dance mix of the theme song to the movie Merry Christmas Mr. Lawrence.
#1 had good detail, and felt like it had a nice balance of all the music (treble, midrange and bass). #3 had fine control over all of the music as well, but was again more engaging than #1. #2 wasn't as engaging as either #1 or #3.
For these three songs, I played each of them all the way through, then switched to the next source. After this, I tried a variety of other tracks, switching between the sources at will between songs to get more direct comparisons during certain passages. In doing so, I noticed that #3 had a little louder volume than the other two. Higher volumes generally lead to more appealing impressions, so this is a factor that must be taken into account.
Results
As I played through more and more songs, it was becoming clearer that #3 was the one that was giving me the most enjoyment. I tried classical, I tried new age, I tried rock, I tried dance, I tried techno; I always felt the most engaged with #3. #3 seemed to have the most forceful bass and treble, and I was just grooving with it. The instruments seemed to blend together better with #3. #1 was pretty good, and felt like it had more detail than either of the others, but it just wasn't as moving as #3. #2 seemed to be consistently behind the others. It wasn't quite as sharp as #1, and the sound felt a little more closed in.
To get a second opinion, I called my girlfriend into the room. She has a much better ear than I do (she was once a band director), and I trust her opinion about music more than my own. I disconnected the headphone amp, and fed the music from the switch to my SimAudio i5.3 integrated amplifier, and out to my Merlin VSM-MX speakers. She sat in the listening chair while I sat down in front of the switch and switched between the sources whenever she asked. I made sure not to tell her my thoughts before she listened.
It didn't take long for her to voice her opinion (it rarely does). She said that #1 and #3 were close, but #3 was a little better. She also said that both of them were decidedly better than #2. I asked her what she meant by "better", and she said that it "just sounds better".
So, after all this testing, what were the identities of these mystery combatants? I peeked behind my setup and started tracing the cords back to their sources.
#1 was the Wadia 581i SE
#2 was the Channel Islands VDA-2
#3 was the Electrocompaniet ECD-1
Conclusion
Again, I should include my usual disclaimers. I don't have the external power supply for the VDA-2, which I've heard improves the sound. I did not run any of the units in balanced mode, which is supposed to greatly improve the sound of the ECD-1 and the Wadia. I am also not properly trained in listening critically; I just like listening to music.
After doing this comparison, I'm more than a little confused. In my previous comparison, I had used an Eastern Electric Minimax CD player as a transport, and I had pegged the ECD-1 and VDA-2 as being fairly comparable. In this comparison, the ECD-1 came out considerably further ahead. Why the change? The Wadia is a better transport than the Minimax, IMO, but would that make that much of a difference? Or was I ready to call something "better" this time if it moved me more, when I was unwilling to do so last time? Probably a little of both.
One issue that I still can't resolve is the extra volume from the ECD-1. It's not that much louder (probably less than 2 dB), but it is detectably louder than the other DACs. I don't really know how to do level matching correctly. The volume control on my headphone amp lacks a digital display, so once the knob is moved, it's going to be next to impossible to get it moved back to the right place (especially since I tend to listen at about the 8 o'clock position, so there isn't a lot of room to play with). I suspect that the higher volume has led to a more positive impression, but I'm not sure how to adequately fix that.
After doing this comparison, I tried out the Wadia's two other processing algorithms. I felt both of them were inferior to the first one, and when I compared them against the ECD-1, I felt the ECD-1 was considerably better. However, the other two algorithms are a little quieter than the standard one (about 1 dB softer), so again, volume might be a consideration.
So, after spending several thousand dollars on the Wadia 581i SE, I found that I like the Electrocompaniet ECD-1 better. Is the ECD-1 hands-down better? No. The Wadia has sharper detail, and a very good sound. The ECD-1 seems to put more emphasis on the frequency extremes, which might not suit everyone's tastes. I liked the "active" sound of the ECD-1, though.
I do think that the Wadia by itself was better than the Minimax + ECD-1 combination, but I have not done a direct comparison. It would also be interesting to see how the Wadia + ECD-1 compared to the Minimax + ECD-1. Maybe next month I can have a Transport-off.
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f7/dac...cd-1-a-299431/
About three months ago, I took the plunge and ordered myself a Wadia 581i SE. After auditioning roughly a dozen CD players, this was the one that seemed to be the most magical. Despite the lofty price tag, I had to have it.
Background
The Wadia 581 SE is the latest "budget" CD player in the Wadia line. The word "budget" is a bit of a stretch here; the 581 SE has an MSRP of US$9,950. As far as I can tell, Wadia players use proprietary DAC chips and processing algorithms, so it's not easy to compare their specs to other DACs. For example, the manual for this player says that the digital resolution is 21 bits, which seems like an awfully strange number. There are three different DAC programs installed in the player, so if one of the algorithms doesn't suit you, you can try another. The player uses 32x oversampling. It has both balanced and single-ended analog outputs, and both of these can be used at the same time. The player also has a digital volume control, which allows it to be connected straight into a power amp (or for the headphone-conscious, straight into a pair of balanced headphones). Wadia also offers this model with digital inputs and outputs (the 581i SE) for US$11,450, which is the model that is used in this comparison. I've heard that the inclusion of the input board leads to a slight decrease in sound quality, but I needed the inputs. I am the original owner of this unit.
Setup
The Wadia was used as the transport for this comparison. For the first song, the Wadia's Toslink output was connected to the Electrocompaniet ECD-1's Toslink input and the ECD-1's Toslink output was connected to the Channel Islands VDA-2's Toslink input. Both of the Toslink connections were done with glass optical cables of the same make and the same length. For subsequent songs, the coaxial output of the Wadia was connected to one of the coaxial inputs of the ECD-1, and the coaxial output of the ECD-1 was connected to the VDA-2's coaxial input. Both of these coax connections were done with Monoprice coaxial cables of the same length. In short, the Wadia fed the signal to the ECD-1, which passed the signal on to the VDA-2.
Throughout the comparison, the Wadia was set up to use its regular DAC program (Algorithm A, also called DigiMaster v2.5). The volume on the Wadia was set to its maximum value so as to bypass the digital volume control.
The ECD-1 and VDA-2 were plugged in and turned on a couple hours before the comparison to give them some time to warm up. The Wadia had been on continuously.
Each of the DACs was used in single-ended mode (the Wadia and ECD-1 have balanced outputs, and the VDA-2 can be converted to a balanced output using a special adapter, but I don't have a balanced amplifier or headphone amp). The output from each of them was connected to a Zektor HDS 4.1 switch using Monoprice RCA cables. Unfortunately, I had two 6' pairs of cables and one 3' pair. The 3' pair went on the Wadia because it was closest to the switch.
Before I hooked up the DACs to the switch, I decided to add a little mystery to the process. I held the three pairs of identical-looking RCA cables in my hands, closed my eyes, and started to quickly switch the cables around with my hands. After a minute or two of this, I had absolutely no idea which cable was coming from which DAC. I then hooked the three sets of cables up to the switch, taking care not to see which cable was coming from which source. For the purposes of my comparison, they were simply #1, #2, and #3.
The output from the switch was then fed into my Audio-Technica HA5000 headphone amp, and I listened to the music with a pair of Audio-Technica W5000 headphones. I used the switch to change the inputs between songs (and occasionally during songs).
Testing
First song: A -少年A- from dj TAKA's Milestone album
I chose this song because I used it a lot in my quest for CD players. It starts off with a lot of separation between notes, but in the middle it switches to an incredibly fast and dense tapestry of synth. Towards the end, there are so many things happening in the song, it gets dizzying. It has very high frequencies, very low frequencies, and pretty much everything else in between. With certain set-ups, it sounds good, but with others, it crosses the line into moving and magical.
#2 had a lot of detail and a fairly clean background. It sounded like there might have been some smearing during the particularly fast sections of the song. #1 seemed to have a cleaner background than #2 and was a little sharper. #3 was very engaging, with deep, full bass and more punch.
Of the three, #3 was the most engaging, and was the only one where I felt chills.
Second song: Last Message from the beatmaniaIIDX 7th Style soundtrack
I like this song because it has a couple sections where the beat just starts and stops on a dime. The silence between the notes in these sections is great for comparing the attack and decay. This was the main piece that I used when I compared the attack and decay of my two units in my first DAC-off.
#3 had weighty bass and good speed, but was a little rough in one of the transitions. #2 had decent speed. #1 had lots of minute detail, and felt like it had the sharpest attack/decay.
All in all, I liked #1 the best in this one, followed closely by #3, and then #2.
Third song: Heart of Asia by Watergate
This is a dance mix of the theme song to the movie Merry Christmas Mr. Lawrence.
#1 had good detail, and felt like it had a nice balance of all the music (treble, midrange and bass). #3 had fine control over all of the music as well, but was again more engaging than #1. #2 wasn't as engaging as either #1 or #3.
For these three songs, I played each of them all the way through, then switched to the next source. After this, I tried a variety of other tracks, switching between the sources at will between songs to get more direct comparisons during certain passages. In doing so, I noticed that #3 had a little louder volume than the other two. Higher volumes generally lead to more appealing impressions, so this is a factor that must be taken into account.
Results
As I played through more and more songs, it was becoming clearer that #3 was the one that was giving me the most enjoyment. I tried classical, I tried new age, I tried rock, I tried dance, I tried techno; I always felt the most engaged with #3. #3 seemed to have the most forceful bass and treble, and I was just grooving with it. The instruments seemed to blend together better with #3. #1 was pretty good, and felt like it had more detail than either of the others, but it just wasn't as moving as #3. #2 seemed to be consistently behind the others. It wasn't quite as sharp as #1, and the sound felt a little more closed in.
To get a second opinion, I called my girlfriend into the room. She has a much better ear than I do (she was once a band director), and I trust her opinion about music more than my own. I disconnected the headphone amp, and fed the music from the switch to my SimAudio i5.3 integrated amplifier, and out to my Merlin VSM-MX speakers. She sat in the listening chair while I sat down in front of the switch and switched between the sources whenever she asked. I made sure not to tell her my thoughts before she listened.
It didn't take long for her to voice her opinion (it rarely does). She said that #1 and #3 were close, but #3 was a little better. She also said that both of them were decidedly better than #2. I asked her what she meant by "better", and she said that it "just sounds better".
So, after all this testing, what were the identities of these mystery combatants? I peeked behind my setup and started tracing the cords back to their sources.
#1 was the Wadia 581i SE
#2 was the Channel Islands VDA-2
#3 was the Electrocompaniet ECD-1
Conclusion
Again, I should include my usual disclaimers. I don't have the external power supply for the VDA-2, which I've heard improves the sound. I did not run any of the units in balanced mode, which is supposed to greatly improve the sound of the ECD-1 and the Wadia. I am also not properly trained in listening critically; I just like listening to music.
After doing this comparison, I'm more than a little confused. In my previous comparison, I had used an Eastern Electric Minimax CD player as a transport, and I had pegged the ECD-1 and VDA-2 as being fairly comparable. In this comparison, the ECD-1 came out considerably further ahead. Why the change? The Wadia is a better transport than the Minimax, IMO, but would that make that much of a difference? Or was I ready to call something "better" this time if it moved me more, when I was unwilling to do so last time? Probably a little of both.
One issue that I still can't resolve is the extra volume from the ECD-1. It's not that much louder (probably less than 2 dB), but it is detectably louder than the other DACs. I don't really know how to do level matching correctly. The volume control on my headphone amp lacks a digital display, so once the knob is moved, it's going to be next to impossible to get it moved back to the right place (especially since I tend to listen at about the 8 o'clock position, so there isn't a lot of room to play with). I suspect that the higher volume has led to a more positive impression, but I'm not sure how to adequately fix that.
After doing this comparison, I tried out the Wadia's two other processing algorithms. I felt both of them were inferior to the first one, and when I compared them against the ECD-1, I felt the ECD-1 was considerably better. However, the other two algorithms are a little quieter than the standard one (about 1 dB softer), so again, volume might be a consideration.
So, after spending several thousand dollars on the Wadia 581i SE, I found that I like the Electrocompaniet ECD-1 better. Is the ECD-1 hands-down better? No. The Wadia has sharper detail, and a very good sound. The ECD-1 seems to put more emphasis on the frequency extremes, which might not suit everyone's tastes. I liked the "active" sound of the ECD-1, though.
I do think that the Wadia by itself was better than the Minimax + ECD-1 combination, but I have not done a direct comparison. It would also be interesting to see how the Wadia + ECD-1 compared to the Minimax + ECD-1. Maybe next month I can have a Transport-off.
.gif)
