DAC for HE400 and Garage1217 Project Polaris AMP
Aug 14, 2014 at 11:17 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 13

GreenMachine

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So I've ordered my new HE400's which will be in next week sometime (SO EXCITED!) and tomorrow I'm ordering the Project Polaris AMP but now I'm looking into the DAC I'll need. I'll be running the AMP and headphones from my laptop (ASUS 53SX series) which I've read has a decent DAC built into it but who knows how true that is.

I'm looking for a DAC in the sub $100 market and my eyes have been on the NuForce uDAC 2, Schiit Modi, Fiio E07K or D3, Muse, and the HiFimeDIY Sabre.

Personally I would rather not spend to terribly much on one so I find appeal in the sub $70 ones I've listed.

So I was curious if someone could push me towards one of the other ad if their really is any major differences between the ones I've mentioned?

Any help is awesome!
 
Aug 15, 2014 at 11:04 PM Post #2 of 13
Schiit Modi, definitely.

There was quite a bit of drama about the NuForce uDAC 2 not performing well. I'd avoid giving NuForce my money for that DAC after that.
 
Aug 16, 2014 at 12:11 AM Post #3 of 13
Agree, but I'd also check out the Stoner Acoustics UD110. It's cheap, and is said to perform better than many options in the range... some say it performs the same as the ODAC, or perhaps edges it out in some areas. Haven't heard it myself, but enough users I trust speak favorably about it that I think it shouldn't be a waste of your time to investigate further. There's a new UD120 version coming soon, IIRC. You shouldn't need to spend much to see that anything is better than 90% of on-board audio
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Aug 16, 2014 at 2:57 AM Post #4 of 13
Thank you both!

The Stoner has definitely been on my watch list for a while now. Seems like a pretty decent little DAC! My question is what would be a decent RCA wire to run out of it to the amp? I know it would need to be a Y cable but I'd rather not settle for a crummy one which is all I can seem to find ATM.

Now the Schiit has been on my radar! Seems fool proof!

Also the Glow Audio DAC has come up and it seems to be another stellar one.

Thanks again, both of you!
 
Aug 16, 2014 at 9:05 PM Post #5 of 13
You can get a stereo 3.5mm jack to dual RCA cable from Monoprice for stupid cheap... I have 4. That's where I usually look first. Good luck!
 
Aug 16, 2014 at 10:14 PM Post #6 of 13
http://www.head-fi.org/t/696401/giant-list-of-sub-200-portable-dacs-w-their-chips-price
 
the modi is extremely popular around here.
 
I personally ended up going with the ud110v2. sounds great. I am pairing it with the he-400 right now.
 
from my personal experience, I wouldn't spend that much money on a dac, very minimal impact on the sound quality and really not very essential (contrary to what people say around here) IMO. dac preferences are also very personal and subjective.
 
I would also consider desktop version of the hifimediy sabre: http://hifimediy.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=87 external PSU, Sabre ES9023 dac chip, USB receiver chip SA9023, async usb, built-in headphone amp. from a spec-wise perspective, it has everything you could possibly want, though note you have to buy the power adapter and usb cord separately if you do not already own extra ones.
 
edit: a lot of people say that implementation is more important than components for a dac, and that is reflected by many extremely expensive dacs using dirt cheap parts. so honestly, it is really hard to objectively say much about a dac's performance. you really have to rely on personal subjective reviews and comparisons. just check if the reviewer has similar musical tastes as you and similar equipment. I would just be extremely wary of spending that much money on a dac because I quickly demoed a few different dacs from different price brackets with my he-400 and there is no extreme 'night-n-day' performance difference. perhaps a extremely critical listening test over extended periods of time, you can pick up the sound quality differences, but I think staying under the $100 mark is a wise choice for your equipment. when I get my he-560, I may try to re-test a bunch of different dacs to see if performance differences are more obvious.
 
hope you enjoy your new he-400 & project polaris!!!! i personally really love my he-400 :):)
 
Aug 16, 2014 at 11:38 PM Post #7 of 13
@money4me247 First off thank you for the link! It almost sounds like I could get by without a DAC? Honestly if I can avoid one for a while that would be great! Nothing hurts being a little bit cheap here and there. As I'm typing this I'm listening to the HE400's (CAME IN TODAY!) straight from my laptop headphone jack and they sound great! A little fuzz but that's most likely due to the fact I'm listening to YouTube (changes with each song) and everyone knows the stellar quality of their uploads... even on my Bose triports I could hear issues with the music. I think when my friend gets back into town in the next few weeks I'll borrow his dac for a day and see if I can tell the difference.

Thanks again! And oh I'm already lost in the 400's! Having a hard time taking them off after hours hahah! I'm dying for the Polaris but that'll be a few weeks since Jeremy at 1217 is out of the country till next Friday :frowning2:
 
Aug 17, 2014 at 12:04 AM Post #8 of 13
  @money4me247 First off thank you for the link! It almost sounds like I could get by without a DAC? Honestly if I can avoid one for a while that would be great! Nothing hurts being a little bit cheap here and there. As I'm typing this I'm listening to the HE400's (CAME IN TODAY!) straight from my laptop headphone jack and they sound great! A little fuzz but that's most likely due to the fact I'm listening to YouTube (changes with each song) and everyone knows the stellar quality of their uploads... even on my Bose triports I could hear issues with the music. I think when my friend gets back into town in the next few weeks I'll borrow his dac for a day and see if I can tell the difference.

Thanks again! And oh I'm already lost in the 400's! Having a hard time taking them off after hours hahah! I'm dying for the Polaris but that'll be a few weeks since Jeremy at 1217 is out of the country till next Friday :frowning2:

Niice!! glad you like em. it's amazing the sound quality that hifiman is able to offer at the $300 price point. makes a ton of other headphones seem extremely overpriced.
 
ya, try using some 320kbps mp3s or FLAC files and you'll be amazed at the SQ upgrades esp w/ a pair of nice headphones like the he-400. after using some nice source files w/ the he-400, you won't be able to tolerate youtube quality tracks heh. the two biggest determining factors of SQ are 1) source files 2) headphones (in that order). amps & dacs have minimal impact on SQ.
 
I know when I used my he-400 straight out of a laptop/phone, the volume usually has to be maxed to achieve listening levels. with an amp, you will find mainly improved volume along with subtle improvements in SQ. polaris is a great SS-amp choice! I'm sure you'll really like it. looks amazzingg as well.
 
in my personal experience, I have found that a dac is definitely not required for the he-400. yes, I can notice slight changes in the sound signature, but it is not a very obvious change. honestly, most on-board sound cards nowadays are good enough. (if you have a really nice gaming rig, some dacs might even be a downgrade than your onboard sound card). if your friend has a dac, it is good to test it yourself and see what kind of audio improvements you hear. I have personally found maybe 5-10% change in SQ which is nice, but a bit crazy for budget-conscious considering most dac are priced at least $150+ (which is greater than 50% of your headphones). the easiest and biggest improvement you can do for SQ is upgrading your source files, which is usually a free process. makes a much bigger difference than a dac.
 
Aug 17, 2014 at 12:20 AM Post #9 of 13
Although in the case of the HE-400s, a new dac/amp can have some good improvement over a laptop *if* you are running the laptop volume near full volume. The HE-400s are fairly inefficient, and so can benefit from more power. Running your laptop near full volume may be squashing some of the dynamics. Laptops can also be somewhat noisy in terms of EMI, and an external dac/amp can give sometimes give the sound a bit more depth.

Also, because the planar magnetics are very resolving, moving toward a more transparent/accurate dac and solid state amp will allow you to hear more detail resolution with good source files.
 
Aug 17, 2014 at 1:51 AM Post #10 of 13
  Niice!! glad you like em. it's amazing the sound quality that hifiman is able to offer at the $300 price point. makes a ton of other headphones seem extremely overpriced.
 
ya, try using some 320kbps mp3s or FLAC files and you'll be amazed at the SQ upgrades esp w/ a pair of nice headphones like the he-400. after using some nice source files w/ the he-400, you won't be able to tolerate youtube quality tracks heh. the two biggest determining factors of SQ are 1) source files 2) headphones (in that order). amps & dacs have minimal impact on SQ.
 
I know when I used my he-400 straight out of a laptop/phone, the volume usually has to be maxed to achieve listening levels. with an amp, you will find mainly improved volume along with subtle improvements in SQ. polaris is a great SS-amp choice! I'm sure you'll really like it. looks amazzingg as well.
 
in my personal experience, I have found that a dac is definitely not required for the he-400. yes, I can notice slight changes in the sound signature, but it is not a very obvious change. honestly, most on-board sound cards nowadays are good enough. (if you have a really nice gaming rig, some dacs might even be a downgrade than your onboard sound card). if your friend has a dac, it is good to test it yourself and see what kind of audio improvements you hear. I have personally found maybe 5-10% change in SQ which is nice, but a bit crazy for budget-conscious considering most dac are priced at least $150+ (which is greater than 50% of your headphones). the easiest and biggest improvement you can do for SQ is upgrading your source files, which is usually a free process. makes a much bigger difference than a dac.

These headphones sure do make tons seem like that! I just can't get over the sound of these!

Actually most of my music is usually 320 kbps! I have a few albums on my PC running at 1536 Kbps and the sound from them... it just can't be beat! Even straight from my laptop the clarity of the music compared to the rest I have just can't be touched!

Now I will say on my laptop, max volume is what I need for gaming but for music it actually can get much louder than I anticipated. I still definitely need the amp for gaming and movies but for music, it actually seems to do great (can't match the reciever I used earlier). From what I've read, the realtek sound card/chip built in is a great one! This laptop was made to run a good pair of headphones through, it seems. Could also be because I'm totally new to high quality headphones and everything tends to sound great!

And the Polaris... too good looking! I'll be sure to post a bunch of pictures because their aren't enough floating around on the web.

I'll definitely look into upgrading my files though! Thanks again for all the great tips! I'll see what happens with my buddies DAC and if I notice a remarkable change, I'll snag one then
Although in the case of the HE-400s, a new dac/amp can have some good improvement over a laptop *if* you are running the laptop volume near full volume. The HE-400s are fairly inefficient, and so can benefit from more power. Running your laptop near full volume may be squashing some of the dynamics. Laptops can also be somewhat noisy in terms of EMI, and an external dac/amp can give sometimes give the sound a bit more depth.

Also, because the planar magnetics are very resolving, moving toward a more transparent/accurate dac and solid state amp will allow you to hear more detail resolution with good source files.

With my laptop on high volume, though still sounding great, it clearly takes away from the sound. The receiver I used earlier really brought out every bit of the sound!
With EMI, do you feel that if I have any, will the amp be sufficient enough in negating it, or will it merely transfer it on to the headphones? I'm still very new to amps so my ignorance is astoundingly large!

Now the amp I'm getting definitely will have plenty of power for these. Judging by the power output graph of the Polaris, they will be putting out somewhere between 1.4-1.6W for the He400.


 
Aug 17, 2014 at 2:01 AM Post #11 of 13
How much/if any EMI might be affecting the laptop SQ is hard to predict. However, a headphone amp will simply amplify the sound coming from the laptop. An external DAC will bypass the laptops analog processing all together.
 
Aug 18, 2014 at 12:31 AM Post #12 of 13
I got ya! Well I'll see what happens once the amp comes in and will decide on a DAC then. As for now, the sound coming straight out of my computer is nothing short of heavenly. Hope it stays that way or even advances with the amp!
 
Oct 5, 2014 at 9:25 AM Post #13 of 13
Hey GreenMachine, has the Polaris arrived yet? Very keen to hear your impressions with the HE-400s!
 

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