[Triode User]

@Triode User Do you ever go bnc only from your K50 to M-scaler? I know you typically use USB with the Innuos PhoenixUSB. I do the same, but I've been curious about going bnc straight from the K50 because I want to hear what the internal reclocker sounds like. Since you're the bnc cables guy, I thought you might have some insight here. Are there any sound quality improvements or decreases by going bnc vs usb?

I have found the best sound I can achieve from my K50 and Dave/Mscaler combination is to use the USB output from the K50 to a PhoenixUSB and then connect that to an SRC.DX usb to bnc convertor. I then use one of my Storm bnc cables from the SRC.DX to connect to the bnc input on the Mscaler.

I tried using the K50 bnc output but compared to my chain it was not as good. My K50 also has an optical output and I also tried that connected to the Mscaler but I soon changed back to using what I have.

The sound quality difference going from usb to the Mscaler and using bnc in the way I describe is significant to my ears and also to many other Dave/Mscaler owners because they do exactly what I do.

If one is using PGGB files then one can add in a second bnc cable from the SRC.DX and go dual bnc direct to the Dave without the Mscaler.

I do not know why the SRC.DX sounds so much better than the bnc output from the K50 but it is easily heard. In the great scheme of things they do not cost too much so it is worth a try. Have a look at the AudioWise site. Every now and then they run discounts but like I said they are not expensive anyway.

 

[Ciggavelli]

I have found the best sound I can achieve from my K50 and Dave/Mscaler combination is to use the USB output from the K50 to a PhoenixUSB and then connect that to an SRC.DX usb to bnc convertor. I then use one of my Storm bnc cables from the SRC.DX to connect to the bnc input on the Mscaler.

I tried using the K50 bnc output but compared to my chain it was not as good. My K50 also has an optical output and I also tried that connected to the Mscaler but I soon changed back to using what I have.

The sound quality difference going from usb to the Mscaler and using bnc in the way I describe is significant to my ears and also to many other Dave/Mscaler owners because they do exactly what I do.

If one is using PGGB files then one can add in a second bnc cable from the SRC.DX and go dual bnc direct to the Dave without the Mscaler.

I do not know why the SRC.DX sounds so much better than the bnc output from the K50 but it is easily heard. In the great scheme of things they do not cost too much so it is worth a try. Have a look at the AudioWise site. Every now and then they run discounts but like I said they are not expensive anyway.

Thanks

I’ll check out th SRC.DX. It’s also kinda reassuring that the USB to PhoenixUSB is the best in your opinion, despite what Antipodes claims (they’re like don’t use usb for whatever reason). The Innuos PhoenixUSB has proven to be a great little device. I love it too

 

[Progisus]

The only output other than ethernet on the K30, S30, 40, EX, CX is usb. I thought it was an Antipodes engineered preferred output.

 

[kennyb123]

It’s also kinda reassuring that the USB to PhoenixUSB is the best in your opinion, despite what Antipodes claims (they’re like don’t use usb for whatever reason).

I believe it has a lot to do with USB placing one at the mercy of the downstream clock. The PhoenixUSB does reclock the signal using a high quality clock so that isn’t the typical case that would shift the advantage to their reclocker.

I am hoping to audition a K50 in the not too distant future. My DAC has an I2S input so the K50 will allow me to put it to good use. Even so, I’m still think that USB will have a considerable advantage due to my use of a REF10 SE120. This actually measures to -121 so I don’t see how their reclocker will have an advantage, but you never know.

 

[Triode User]

The only output other than ethernet on the K30, S30, 40, EX, CX is usb. I thought it was an Antipodes engineered preferred output.

So why would the k50 have bnc and optical if usb was the preferred output. The Innuos machines prefer usb and as a consequence the Statement only has usb.

Anyway, from a user point of view there is a body of opinion that they sound better using bnc input rather than usb.

 

[kennyb123]

So why would the k50 have bnc and optical if usb was the preferred output. The Innuos machines prefer usb and as a consequence the Statement only has usb.

I honestly wish that the legacy synchronous interfaces had died a long time ago leaving all manufacturers focused on getting the best from USB. I guess it’s good though that we have so many bloody options.

I think what bothers me about the different interfaces is the discussion seem generally out of proportion with the gains to be had.

When I do get the opportunity to compare I2S from the K50 to USB, I unfortunately won’t be able to get apples-to-apples as far as the cables. I can pull a good HDMI cables from my video system but it won’t really be fair to put it up against my USB cable. Maybe I should think of renting something from the Cable Company.

 

[Progisus]

So why would the k50 have bnc and optical if usb was the preferred output. The Innuos machines prefer usb and as a consequence the Statement only has usb.

Anyway, from a user point of view there is a body of opinion that they sound better using bnc input rather than usb.

I meant preferred outout for the series I listed. The previous poster said Antipodes said to stay away from usb so I was defending that series.

 

[richardloh]

I’ve heard good things about the Tubulus I2S cables. Let us know what you think.

Hi Kenny,

Just received the Tubulus Concentus hdmi and RJ45 and already sounding fine on initial use.

Will listen again after 4-5 days of 24/7 streaming by the Antipodes stack into Hermes ddc and T+ DE as well as Avatar Transport directly to T+ DE

Cheers.

Richard

 

[richardloh]

I honestly wish that the legacy synchronous interfaces had died a long time ago leaving all manufacturers focused on getting the best from USB. I guess it’s good though that we have so many bloody options.

I think what bothers me about the different interfaces is the discussion seem generally out of proportion with the gains to be had.

When I do get the opportunity to compare I2S from the K50 to USB, I unfortunately won’t be able to get apples-to-apples as far as the cables. I can pull a good HDMI cables from my video system but it won’t really be fair to put it up against my USB cable.

https://antipodes.audio/design/

Hi Kenny, I thought Mark had been very clear on the preferred architecture with great details at each of 4 stages of digital playback together with the associated reasons in the link ?

It is usb and/or I2s ONLY for me on high dsd rated music files and fortunately, I believe I am in line with mentioned architecture with cx+ex stack via usb to Denafrips Hermes ddc/reclocker via i2s with added advantage of high quality cybershaft oxco clocks in just millimeters away from the R2R electronics within the Denafrips T+ DE that synchronises the Hermes and all its input sources, including usb from cx+ex stack.

Cheers.

 

[DrPo]

Hi all, I would like the advice of this group as I am evaluating several options for upgrading my 'pre DAC' set up.

Currently using a (pre Oladra upgrade) EX in two main configurations:

• as Roon server with a Sonore UR endpoint for the main rig and an SoTM 200 endpoint for the study
• as SqueezeServer + SQPlayer into a P2 reclocker (main rig only), which is (much to my chagrin as I love Roon's interface) the best sounding option

The options I am evaluating are:

1. a K50
2. a combination of Roon Nucleus+ as server with a K22 as renderer + reclocker
3. other non Antipodes options (Grimm MU1, bespoke servers from boutique designers)

As this is an Antipodes thread, is there a consensus on whether option [2] above has any disadvantages versus option [1] (that is, are there expected sonic benefits from running the server function on an Antipodes machine versus Nucleus)?

thanks in advance

 

[kennyb123]

The options I am evaluating are:

1. a K50
2. a combination of Roon Nucleus+ as server with a K22 as renderer + reclocker
3. other non Antipodes options (Grimm MU1, bespoke servers from boutique designers)

I don’t think option 2 stands much of a chance against option 1. But with a really good power supply for the Nucleus, it might give you a nice bang for the buck when used with the K22. You could always swap this for a K41 at a future time.

As far as option 3, I know that the Grimm has lots of fans. It wouldn’t be a choice I’d make as it’s limited to running only Roon.

I’ve owned servers from Auralic and Innuos, but I wouldn’t buy from them again. I would definitely buy from Antipodes again. Their pre- and post-sale support has been phenomenal.

 

[coldbru]

as Roon server with a Sonore UR endpoint for the main rig and an SoTM 200 endpoint for the study

• as SqueezeServer + SQPlayer into a P2 reclocker (main rig only), which is (much to my chagrin as I love Roon's interface) the best sounding option

The options I am evaluating are:

1. a K50
2. a combination of Roon Nucleus+ as server with a K22 as renderer + reclocker
3. other non Antipodes options (Grimm MU1, bespoke servers from boutique designers)

In my experience the best performance for the EX is to isolate it from the server (a CX in my case) and everything else on the network with (in may case) 2 EtherRegens connected via SFP optical. In other words, CX > ethernet > EX does not sound as transparent as CX > ethernet > 2 etherregens with optical isolation > ethernet > EX.

With that said, in context of your decision I would add:
- The Grimm resamples everything to 24/176 or 192. You benefit from their filtering, but if you are heavily invested in higher res content (DXD, or DSD 64 / 128 / etc) this may be bothersome.
- The Grimm is simple: Roon only, EAS and SPDIF outputs only (USB is supported but doesn't seem recommended), no HQPlayer. The Antipodes solutions are complex: Roon, Roon + HQP, Roon + Squeeze, Squeeze, MPD, Airplay, UPnP, etc, and the K50 adds AES, SPDIF, HDMI, etc reclocked outputs. So if you enjoy the n% increases or differences you can maybe achieve with these options you may feel constrained. If you want to set it up and forget it, the Grimm might be preferable.

 

[kennyb123]

The Grimm resamples everything to 24/176 or 192. You benefit from their filtering, but if you are heavily invested in higher res content (DXD, or DSD 64 / 128 / etc) this may be bothersome.

It seems optimized for the legacy interfaces that max out at 192k.

The Grimm is simple: Roon only, EAS and SPDIF outputs only (USB is supported but doesn't seem recommended), no HQPlayer. The Antipodes solutions are complex: Roon, Roon + HQP, Roon + Squeeze, Squeeze, MPD, Airplay, UPnP, etc, and the K50 adds AES, SPDIF, HDMI, etc reclocked outputs.

I’d use the term “limited” in place of “simple”. Aiming to do fewer things well can be a better approach.

I wouldn’t say that Antipodes is “complex”. They give their users the option of choosing simple (LMS/Squeeze) complex (HQPlayer) and a few options in between.

I do agree though that a person who isn’t very technical might find Grimm a simpler to use. Fewer options to choose from certainly reduces the learning curve. Their documentation is excellent as well.

 

[coldbru]

Sure, and also, Grimm seems to be the hottest "what sounds best" at the moment. I haven't read any reviews that address how it sounds playing very high-res content (although I recall in the Alpha Audio interview the Grimm principals indicate they spent time thinking about how for instance 2xDSD gets filtered/samples down to the 4fs AES output), but frankly it seems not that many people (from a marketing perspective) care about DXD/4xDSD.

... When are OLADRA reviews coming? : D

 

[Clive101]

Sure, and also, Grimm seems to be the hottest "what sounds best" at the moment. I haven't read any reviews that address how it sounds playing very high-res content (although I recall in the Alpha Audio interview the Grimm principals indicate they spent time thinking about how for instance 2xDSD gets filtered/samples down to the 4fs AES output), but frankly it seems not that many people (from a marketing perspective) care about DXD/4xDSD.

... When are OLADRA reviews coming? : D

I am still waiting for an incoming OLADRA but recently purchased an AfterDark Dela S100 more to follow......playing now on a Sean Jacobs DC1.