[DatHak512]

Okay. I'm curious. I've got a $100 Technics CD player at home with an optical out. Besides obviously the built-in oversampling if we're talking about analog out, what are the benefits that a $10,000 CDP will have over my $100 CDP if only digital outs are considered? I'm just curious, and not looking to buy, but figured that this would be the best place to ask!

Thanks.

 

[chesebert]

BETTER {soundstage, seperation, imaging, layering, timber, bass, treble, fullness of the sound (midrange), attack, decay, focus, and etc...}

Edit: crap..didn't see the digital out thing. I don't know then.

 

[30241]

If only using the digital out, then the only difference is in the $900 you saved yourself.

 

[drarthurwells]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DatHak512 Okay. I'm curious. I've got a $100 Technics CD player at home with an optical out. Besides obviously the built-in oversampling if we're talking about analog out, what are the benefits that a $10,000 CDP will have over my $100 CDP if only digital outs are considered? I'm just curious, and not looking to buy, but figured that this would be the best place to ask! Thanks.

Better transport, mounted in an heavy solid base to reduce microphonics in the laser pick up, with a optical preamp (in high end players) = equal better sound.

 

[DatHak512]

drarthurwells, what exactly does an optical pre-amp do? If i had to guess, i'd say it sounds like it just emits a brighter optical signal? But i'm sure that's completely off...

Also, sorry for my stupidity, but what exactly to you mean by "better transport"?

edit: thanks muchly for the replies...

 

[Glassman]

sorry guys but the transport - the part which is reading the disc - has probably the least influence of any possible influences.. try recording s/pdif output from some cheapie CDP with cheapie plasticky transport and you'll see that the data are in fact correct.. the problem is obviously somewhere else! just yesterday, I was auditioning a few different digital output boards in the same CDP and they all sounded different, although all of them were much better than most anything seen used inside vast majority of CD players on the market.. yes, even the expensive ones.. it's really fascinating, provided the DAC used had secondary PLL reclocking and that it indeed isolated jitter better than majority of DACs on the market.. still so obvious differences.. I'm not sure if we would hear it if we wouldn't be listening to Martin Logan CLS IIz, a full range ESL speakers, but using them it was clear as hell.. I repeat - same bloody CDP, different digital output boards..

 

[Garbz]

Ineed the sound characteristic has little to do with the transport and lots to do with the software and how the transport is contolled. Jitter is the name of the enemy. The less the better, and you don't need Martin Logans to hear it too, and for that matter you don't even need B&W 805s to hear it. THe difference in transports using the same dac is evident on modest systems too.

 

[DatHak512]

So you're saying that how the transport -- that is to say the traveling laser pickup / lens assemby -- is controlled has a goodly impact on sound quality, even with a digital out? What is the logic behind this? Just that the motion is smoother and so the bits are... smoother as well?

 

[Sleestack]

I have several DACS (TEAC Esoteric D-70, MF X-DAC v3/Perp.Tech. P3A) and transports (Meridian G08, Onix CD-2, Denon 5910, Denon 3910, Classe SACD2). I honestly have to say that as long as I'm using the same DAC and the same source material, the transport I use seems to have no effect on the final sound. I use very sensitive stereo equipment and have tried many different combinations. Perhaps others have better ears than me, but my ears tell me that the transport isn't making an audible impact on the final sound.

 

[Glassman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DatHak512 So you're saying that how the transport -- that is to say the traveling laser pickup / lens assemby -- is controlled has a goodly impact on sound quality, even with a digital out? What is the logic behind this? Just that the motion is smoother and so the bits are... smoother as well?

not at all, the clock used to drive the servo and other stuff isn't of any importance, only the one which clocks out the data from digital output or clocks the D/A converter chip.. the fact that they are many times the same one doesn't really change the situation.. CD is not a turntable, thats a pretty straightforward observation, but little understood among the audiophile crowd

 

[drarthurwells]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glassman sorry guys but the transport - the part which is reading the disc - has probably the least influence of any possible influences.. try recording s/pdif output from some cheapie CDP with cheapie plasticky transport and you'll see that the data are in fact correct.. the problem is obviously somewhere else! just yesterday, I was auditioning a few different digital output boards in the same CDP and they all sounded different, although all of them were much better than most anything seen used inside vast majority of CD players on the market.. yes, even the expensive ones.. it's really fascinating, provided the DAC used had secondary PLL reclocking and that it indeed isolated jitter better than majority of DACs on the market.. still so obvious differences.. I'm not sure if we would hear it if we wouldn't be listening to Martin Logan CLS IIz, a full range ESL speakers, but using them it was clear as hell.. I repeat - same bloody CDP, different digital output boards..

Glad for your input here.

What about the effect of an optical preamp on a transport?

The Eastsound E5 uses the Philips VAM 1202 but adds an optical preamp to the transport. Normally the VAM 1202 does not come with an optical preamp, however the VAM 1250 profesional transport does feature an optical preamp. I assume that Eastsound, and Philips, does not go to additional expense unless there is a sonic benefit.

I don't know what the preamp adds to the laser reading or why it is an added feature of the Eastsound and VAM 1250 professional model transport. Do you or anyone else know?

 

[Garbz]

I'm taking a guess but i'm going to say its a way to compensate for the fact that the cheap optical solutions are really not ideal to transmit data perfectly jitterfree at the required speed. I'm not sure what it does but my guess is it affects the performance of the TOTX itself and has little to do with the data.

 

[Teerawit]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleestack I have several DACS (TEAC Esoteric D-70, MF X-DAC v3/Perp.Tech. P3A) and transports (Meridian G08, Onix CD-2, Denon 5910, Denon 3910, Classe SACD2). I honestly have to say that as long as I'm using the same DAC and the same source material, the transport I use seems to have no effect on the final sound. I use very sensitive stereo equipment and have tried many different combinations. Perhaps others have better ears than me, but my ears tell me that the transport isn't making an audible impact on the final sound.

not surprising....you're using mega-transports

now how do they sound with a $100 cd player's optical out?

 

[Glassman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garbz I'm taking a guess but i'm going to say its a way to compensate for the fact that the cheap optical solutions are really not ideal to transmit data perfectly jitterfree at the required speed. I'm not sure what it does but my guess is it affects the performance of the TOTX itself and has little to do with the data.

it has something to do with the laser pickup, not optical output.. while I cannot tell for sure, I guess it's calibrating laser power based on reflectivity of the particular disc inserted.. nothing to do with jitter again, but it might improve the reliability of the transport mechanism and help reading RW or simply hard to read discs.. should have no effect on sound when playing CDs in good condition.. you can always check for yourself, each CD player nowadays has digital output, which you can connect to computer soundcard and record, then compare with properly ripped track..

 

[Glassman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teerawit not surprising....you're using mega-transports now how do they sound with a $100 cd player's optical out?

and who said just because they are mega, I mean mega-bucks, they ought to be done properly? certainly not..