Crossfeed? What does it do?
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The Monkey

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Sorry for such a noobie question, but what exactly does a crossfeed do?
 
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n_maher

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The Monkey

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Excellent. Very helpful, Nate. Have you used one before? Does it make a big difference?
 
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rickcr42

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I would and to that the very first crossfeed which was later improved by Chu for the orignal headwize article :

http://www.linkwitzlab.com/images/graphics/hdphon1.gif

http://www.linkwitzlab.com/images/graphics/hdphon2.gif

and when you are ready for it,after readin the headwize library articles,Headrooms description and then Jan Meiers site :

http://www.johncon.com/john/SSheadphoneAmp/index.html

That last is not for the meek and a solid grasp of what the crossfeed is and the waht/why of it would go a long way toward understanding this very technical page.
 
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The Monkey

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Looks like I have some studying to do! Oh, that sound you heard was a can of worms opening...
 
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Garbz

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it comes down to taste to whether you want it or not. Personally i can't stand them. The appeal of headpohnes is that sound bounces around inside the head. (or arround it). I can't stand they way they shrink the stereo image.
 
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bas

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Garbz
I can't stand they way they shrink the stereo image.


Exactly my feelings, with the exception of some old stereo mixes from the time when people thought stereo was never going to replace mono (and they sure tried pretty hard too). In my view, crossfeed is somwhat of a necessary compromise for those recordings. Not ideal, but better than without.
However, I've never heard anything "leave" my head (then again, every one's hrtf are different). And sometimes, crossfeed seems to do bad things to natural room information on recordings that have them.
 
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n_maher

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I haven't used crossfeed before but I have one all set up to go in my M3. I find when listening to some "older" music like the Beatles and Ray Charles that the channel separation can detract from the listening experience.

It will certainly be something that I play with before it gets a permanent home in any of my amps.

Thanks for the links Rick!

Nate
 
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rreynol

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Along the same lines of what Nate said, I find the best way to experiment with it is just to build a stand alone crossfeed box to go between source and amp. This is what I did just in case it turned out that I didn't like it.

On older recordings or recordings where there is high channel separation, I find it to add to the listening experience. On newer recordings, I tend to leave it in the chain anyway and don't hear the effect unless I'm listening for it.

It'll be up to you whether or not you want it.
 
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bas

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Regarding Beatles L+R stereo, isn't reducing channel seperation a more straight-forward way of addressing the problem. I tried this with foobar and Rubber Soul (~30-40% seperation) and, at the time of writing, prefer it over foobar's crossfeed plugin. A proper hardware crossfeed may sound better though.
 
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rreynol

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Quote:

Originally Posted by bas
Regarding Beatles L+R stereo, isn't reducing channel seperation a more straight-forward way of addressing the problem. I tried this with foobar and Rubber Soul (~30-40% seperation) and, at the time of writing, prefer it over foobar's crossfeed plugin. A proper hardware crossfeed may sound better though.


Wouldn't that imply that you're using a computer as a source? :wink:
 
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bas

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It's kind of convenient when perusing head-fi you know...


Surely though, one can implement adjustable channel seperation with resistors and a pot (tbh, i haven't got a clue
), no?
 
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rickcr42

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Quote:

Regarding Beatles L+R stereo, isn't reducing channel seperation a more straight-forward way of addressing the problem. I tried this with foobar and Rubber Soul (~30-40% seperation) and, at the time of writing, prefer it over foobar's crossfeed plugin. A proper hardware crossfeed may sound better though.


A straight stero blend adds little to the problem of early stereo recordings where most engineers had no actual clue what the blumlein method of stereo reproduction was meant to achive.

Rather than have left signal meld into the right and right signal meld to the left with natuaral phasing and frequency manipulation as would occur with the Blumlein Mic Technique in a live recording they instead grouped all of certain things in one channel and all the rest in the other.
There is no center image but two distinct mono images that with headphones can not blend as the would with speakers where the sound from each reaches both ears.
Blending this does not make it stereo but closer to mono and any image as bad as it is destroyed.

So what is the crossfeed ?

Simply put a frequency dependant blend that operates from the middle bass area up to the high end area.This blend is not an "all or nothing" deal but a mild effect attemtping to reconstruct what you hear with loudspeakers playing the same cut.
Because it IS a filter and because the two channels have identical filtering added to each other there will be some comb filtering and frequency dependant losses going on which are not strictly helpful so it is up to the listener to decide if the tradeoffs are of value.

I personall use a crossfeed with certain recordings but is is so mild it is barely noticeable for being there but the increased stereo soundfield it creates is a plus mostly.
Since I also have "in system" tone controls and adjustable filters I simply tweak the signal for best sound in combination with the XFD device for best overall musical enjoyment and care not what the scope plot would look like.

Looking at my settings I have a +3 dB boost @ 12 khz,a -2dB dip at 250 hz and a +6 dB boost at 40 hz which is used with a crossfeed having the dominant pole at 300hz.

different strokes but my thought is it is always nice to have the nmeans to adjust/change a parameter and not need it than it is to need it and not have it so my system includes all types of signal "tweekers" for those cases where settling for a bad recording that has good music content just will not do if enjoying the music is the end goal.


Rickster
 
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