[Max Dread]

Hi all

Ive got some AKG K701s on the way and have had an offer on a good deal for a Creek OBH-21SE amp. I've read very mixed reviews on this amp, but most of the positive ones discuss it in combination with sennies. So I'm wondering how the amp will match the AKGs?

They will mainly be used in a studio environment, checking mixes, etc. I have main monitors, but will use headphones at night and for a second opinion. Neutrality and an unbiased sound is therefore what I am after.

Would really appreciate any opinions.

Cheers

Max

 

[Max Dread]

Hi

Last plea for help and advice before I go and blow more money!!!!!!!

Cheers

Max

 

[nsx_23]

Sorry about your wallet: Official head-fi motto.

if you don't want to blow lots of money, you've come to the wrong forum

 

[Zorander]

I have not heard those specific electronics but I own and have thus heard their lesser siblings, namely the OBH-21 and K601. Based on my experience with those two, I believe you could do better with a different combination. The Creek is a neutral amp that does not pretty up the sound, including the bass, much. The AKG is also quite dry in the bass and the tough load they present to amps also means they require powerful amps to truly come alive. The combination sounds too sterile to me and lacks clout. The Corda Arietta, based on the Headfive which I owned, might be a better match though still not a perfect one IMO. Seeing that the Corda Move powers most of my AKGs nicely, I suspect a Corda Cantate will work out nicely in your favour.

Cheers!

p.s. The "Corda" amps are of Meier-Audio (check out the Sponsor list on the left)

 

[shamu144]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zorander The AKG is also quite dry in the bass and the tough load they present to amps also means they require powerful amps to truly come alive. The combination sounds too sterile to me and lacks clout

Absolutely agree on that...I did own the OBH21SE with K501, and to say the truth, I never got involved with this combo. I would definitely look towards other choices, like tube amps, which could soften the somehow dryness of the K501 (I suppose the same for K701) and add some lush or liquidity to the sound, as well as life.

Regards,

 

[Max Dread]

Thanks Zorander/shamu144, I will look into the options you suggest.

But when you use terms (as positives) such as:

lush, liquidity, soften, lacks clout, etc.

...as opposed to the negative terms you use:

neutral, does not pretty up, dry, sterile, etc.

...I'm left wondering whether your negatives might be my positives!?@$! It's so very hard to use language to describe something as subjective as sound, especially as one person's meaning of a term might be quite different to another's. I can totally see where your terms are leading me from a hifi/enjoyment point of view. But from a reference/studio/analytical point of view - which is where I am looking at things from - "neutral, does not pretty up" is kind of exactly what I'm looking for. I've spent a lot of time and money on setting up my studio with acoustic treatment and reference monitors to do exactly this, and now I want headphones to compliment.

BUT all this hinges on whether I am reading you/understanding you correctly....?

Cheers for your time, it really is appreciated.

Max

 

[tfarney]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max Dread /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks Zorander/shamu144, I will look into the options you suggest. But when you use terms (as positives) such as: lush, liquidity, soften, lacks clout, etc. ...as opposed to the negative terms you use: neutral, does not pretty up, dry, sterile, etc. ...I'm left wondering whether your negatives might be my positives!?@$! It's so very hard to use language to describe something as subjective as sound, especially as one person's meaning of a term might be quite different to another's. I can totally see where your terms are leading me from a hifi/enjoyment point of view. But from a reference/studio/analytical point of view - which is where I am looking at things from - "neutral, does not pretty up" is kind of exactly what I'm looking for. I've spent a lot of time and money on setting up my studio with acoustic treatment and reference monitors to do exactly this, and now I want headphones to compliment. BUT all this hinges on whether I am reading you/understanding you correctly....? Cheers for your time, it really is appreciated. Max

Yep. The primary use of phones in a studio environment is to listen in for details, typically flaws. "Pretty up" will just get in the way. You will want an amp with enough power for the AKGs, of course. But "neutral," "dry," "analytical?" That's exactly what you need.

Tim

 

[sacd lover]

I owned the previous Creek OBH-11SE and I have heard the newer version. To be honest, I dont think the Creek amps sound much better than the cheap headphone outputs on most cd players. The sound was thin, dynamically compressed and brightish in the treble. The Creek amps bring out the worst in my Grados. With the 701s lightweight balance and lack of bass power I think you will get a thin and bland sound that is neither accurate nor musical. I believe you can do much better.

 

[Zorander]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max Dread /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks Zorander/shamu144, I will look into the options you suggest. But when you use terms (as positives) such as: lush, liquidity, soften, lacks clout, etc. ...as opposed to the negative terms you use: neutral, does not pretty up, dry, sterile, etc. ...I'm left wondering whether your negatives might be my positives!?@$! It's so very hard to use language to describe something as subjective as sound, especially as one person's meaning of a term might be quite different to another's. I can totally see where your terms are leading me from a hifi/enjoyment point of view. But from a reference/studio/analytical point of view - which is where I am looking at things from - "neutral, does not pretty up" is kind of exactly what I'm looking for. I've spent a lot of time and money on setting up my studio with acoustic treatment and reference monitors to do exactly this, and now I want headphones to compliment. BUT all this hinges on whether I am reading you/understanding you correctly....? Cheers for your time, it really is appreciated. Max

I see your point. In that case, the Creek and AKG combo will fulfill the neutrality aspect. However, I still think the AKG will benefit from a beefier amp that can also control those hard-to-drive drivers. When I switched from the Creek to my current Solo, the difference was not just apparent in the dynamic swings of the bass but also in the micro-details I was suddenly hearing that was not present with the Creek. The difference in sound quality was that obvious. As a matter of fact, if you can spare the cash, the Graham Slee Solo is a great choice for a headphone amp. It is very resolving, has plenty of power to properly control most headphones and does not colour the sound.

Cheers!

p.s. sacd lover, the OP is referring to the OBH-21SE, which is different to the OBH-11SE.

 

[Zemzem]

Hi.

Why don't you try a SPL phonitor. I'm sure it is the new HP amp reference in many mastering house.

Now, on the "neutral" thing, I know a lot of sound and mastering engineers (including me) who work with everything but "neutral" Headphones, like HD25, MDR 7506 even beyers or Grado.

For example, when I worked on the live recording of The Queen Elizabeth singing Competition in Belgium, this year, there was Rs2, GS1000, MDR 7506, MDR 7509, (I didn't take my K701)on the HP jack of the Sony mixing desk/nagra/Sony CD recorder/and many other things..., and speakers too, I think the "neutrality" it's a matter of Taste, not a law.

If your Speakers are good (and I'm sure they are), you'd better think about you're headphones for checking a particular thing on the mix (like the Bass/bass drum relationship, the treble parts of the choir verb...), and use as many as you can as a function of their particular skills.

Just my two cents...

Z

 

[Max Dread]

Excellent advice guys and really appreciated.

Zemzem - nice idea about the spl, but the price tag itself was almost enough to give me a coronary! And I can only afford one good set of cans (I have others for tracking). I'm getting headphones for several reasons - mixing late at night, a second opinion of what I hear from my monitors, general checking for things like clicks, bad edit points, etc. BTW, I use Event ASP8 monitors.

I have heard great things about the GS Solo, but isnt the intro model £333? If a cheap deal or second hand one came up then maybe, but to be honest I wasn't really even in the market for an amp - it was only because this guy has the Creek for sale that I thought of it. I'm hoping I can get it for something £80-£100.

sacd lover suggests the Creek may not be much better than a hifi headphone amp. I have an EMU 1820M soundcard which is what I will use if I amp ampless. Any opinions on how the Creek will compare and whether it is a feasible upgrade for the cost.

Thanks a million.

Max.

 

[Zemzem]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max Dread /img/forum/go_quote.gif Zemzem - nice idea about the spl, but the price tag itself was almost enough to give me a coronary!

I completely understand the $/£/€ factor , same damn problem here

I can't really help you on the "HP amp for K701 thing", because I'm searching almost the same thing.
Nevertheless (Is this the correct word ? I hope so...), I recently hear the Heed-canamp and it match very well the K701, and, IMHO, the price (if you buy it directly from Heed it's something like €320), is OK.
But before any "money spending", especially for professional use TRY BEFORE BUY!!

Z

PS: I know your speakers, but i never had the chance to listen and/or work with...

 

[Max Dread]

Resurrecting this thread now that I have spent some time with my set up.

TBH, I cannot hear a great deal of difference between the Creek and the EMU 1820M headphone output. So I think some folk got it right! OTOH it could just be my crappy untrained ears!

I do find the sound of the Creek very sterile and a bit harsh in the highs, especially if listening at any kind of volume. The bass does seem to be a bit lacking as well.

Oh well. I am going to try and compare the Creek to a MF X-Canv3 they have at a local shop. But from what I have read, the Heed Canamp could be a winner. I just wish I could try one first!

Cheers

Max