Creative changes strategy
Oct 27, 2005 at 11:25 PM Post #32 of 66
Creative needs to change the thought process behind their releases, or else they'll be out of the DAP market after next year. Except for Creative, all the major players in the market have a niche: Apple has the mainstream covered, iAudio and iRiver cover the "I want it all" crowd (FM radio, recording, good EQ, etc.), and all 3 fight it out in the flash market. Creative's players are relatively bulky (which gets rid of some of the mainstream), have no line-out or lossless support (gets rid of a substantial part of the audiophile market)... they're bland DAP's with a major name slapped on them.
 
Oct 28, 2005 at 1:38 AM Post #33 of 66
Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisfromalbany
My issue with there DAPs was poor UI and bulky player.



Interesting that you brought this up. A firmware update a couple years back changed the UI in all their players, and for the WORST. The UI in Creative players used to be FAAAR better than they are now. See *THIS THREAD*
 
Oct 28, 2005 at 1:40 AM Post #34 of 66
all i can say is i'm not buying any more creative dap's. my micro works well when it works, but i'm sick of the hardware bugs, and i'm ashamed to admit how much i paid for it when i could have gotten something with MUCH more storage for the same price.
 
Oct 28, 2005 at 1:50 AM Post #35 of 66
Quote:

Originally Posted by Old Dave
...The audiophiles who hang out on Headfi etc. may perceive a difference in sound quality between DAPs because it is a hobby, but the reality is that the differences are very small. i have now owned Apple, Creative, IRiver and Archos and while the sound signatures are slightly different I am hard-pressed to say one is materially better ....


I disagree. My wife who has no interest in HiFi at all can easily differenciate between SQ in equipment or even bitrate. However, its simply something she would never think of comparing, unless prompted to by me. Most people with MP3 players simply never do comparitive listening tests. To be honest most people don't even care, even when they hear the differences.
 
Oct 28, 2005 at 2:29 AM Post #36 of 66
At least Creative is trying ... in its own peculiar way. Maybe giants Sony and Samsung, even with their new products, have essentially conceded the audio player market to Apple and its huge head start. Maybe they assume the "audio-only" era will be (or has already been?) so brief that there's no point trying to innovate or compete, when instead they can be developing media modules that handle satellite telephone, Web surfing, digital photos, video playback, PowerPoint presentations, wedding-present thank-yous, and blood glucose monitoring. Outside of the Head-Fi people, will there be a market for affordable, progressive audio players two or three years from now?
 
Oct 28, 2005 at 3:28 AM Post #37 of 66
Quote:

Originally Posted by LaBreaHead
At least Creative is trying ... in its own peculiar way. Maybe giants Sony and Samsung, even with their new products, have essentially conceded the audio player market to Apple and its huge head start. Maybe they assume the "audio-only" era will be (or has already been?) so brief that there's no point trying to innovate or compete, when instead they can be developing media modules that handle satellite telephone, Web surfing, digital photos, video playback, PowerPoint presentations, wedding-present thank-yous, and blood glucose monitoring. Outside of the Head-Fi people, will there be a market for affordable, progressive audio players two or three years from now?


Yes. But, like now, there will be very few of them. AFAIK, Rio and Neuros are the only ones with progressive DAPs since the first Ipod.
 
Oct 28, 2005 at 3:38 AM Post #38 of 66
I used my friends Zen Micro and i found it extremely easy to use. it took about 2 minutes to get used to the touch pad, then i turned up the sensitivity and smacked him for being a moron and leaving it at medium. high setting makes it extremely easy to use. i was going to buy one, until i found out about the headphone jack crapped out and the fact that it's about 3 inches thick (exaggeration), but actually, the thickness was a small thing. Right now i'm looking at a rio carbon (gonna get one before they're gone) and they look pretty hot. thin, easy to use UI, and has a voice recorder (a plus). i had a rio before, and they're a breeze to use. oh, and the fact that i can get 1 brand new on ebay for $100 sweetens the deal.
 
Oct 28, 2005 at 5:24 AM Post #39 of 66
http://www.zaobao.com/cj/cj051027_538.html

quoted from the article above:

"Depends on the sound tyrant card computer sound effect service as for the innovation science and technology which rises, the output gradually rise. He disclosed that, "We will have reto attack the market, is opposite to the MP3 product, we will invest more funds to X-Fi. Next year when inside our MP3 product also will have X-Fi, they will have a common marketing information."

I'm just wondering if "he" has been reading this thread all along
 
Oct 28, 2005 at 6:55 AM Post #40 of 66
Quote:

Originally Posted by wwap
http://www.zaobao.com/cj/cj051027_538.html

quoted from the article above:

"Depends on the sound tyrant card computer sound effect service as for the innovation science and technology which rises, the output gradually rise. He disclosed that, "We will have reto attack the market, is opposite to the MP3 product, we will invest more funds to X-Fi. Next year when inside our MP3 product also will have X-Fi, they will have a common marketing information."

I'm just wondering if "he" has been reading this thread all along



wow. they gonna put x-fi technology into their mp3 players next year.
 
Oct 28, 2005 at 8:10 AM Post #41 of 66
Another creative article from http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4378014.stm

quoted from the above article,

"Creative's chairman and chief executive Sim Wong Hoo said this non-discount policy would continue into 2006, even if it meant losing market share.

"We are focusing on profitability," he said.

"We are not going to go aggressively on market share - we need to hold back our appetite and sell at a higher price."



I'm not very impressed at all
 
Oct 28, 2005 at 8:11 AM Post #42 of 66
I own a Zen Touch and before that a Karma and a Nomad Jukebox 3 before that, and I have to say that Creative can make some great players. A few things trouble me about them though, one being that they have lost many, many features over the years, and not to mention sound quality. The Nomad JB3 that came out 4 years ago if memory serves me right had a ton of features, like coax inputs and even 2 line outs for hooking up surround sound speakers, as well as dozens of different sound options like reverb effects and normalizers and even speed and pitch controls. Now, 4 years later all my Zen Touch has is about 9 EQ presets and the same 4-band user EQ from 2001. The overall sound quality is on par with the JB3, but I find it so odd that those great features just vanished alltogether (I think the Zen and Zen XTRA line had some of them, but they too had cuts). So im stuck with a player that is 4 years behind in features, with nothing new really aside from wonky touch controls and a random play button, thats literally it. If Creative wants to get a bigger piece of the pie, they need to start taking a hint from companies like Cowon and Rio and giving consumers more options, and Im not talking about video or any of that crap. They need to support lossess, and start pushing sound control and quality, because they are a company first known for sound, not white industrial design or slick marketing. No company can beat Apple at its own game right now. They are what Nintendo was in 1985, and that isnt going to change until Apple starts making stupid decisions. Rio is dead (goddammit that just isnt fair!), and unless Creative sets its sights elsewhere and bides its time instead of thinking it can declare war on Apple, they might suffer the same fate...that is as far as DAPs are concerned. Creative still has a nice beat on the soundcard market last time I checked, and Im pretty sure Apple aint gonna be making them anytime soon, or will they?
 
Oct 28, 2005 at 8:26 AM Post #43 of 66
Quote:

Originally Posted by MrCookie989
I own a Zen Touch and before that a Karma and a Nomad Jukebox 3 before that, and I have to say that Creative can make some great players. A few things trouble me about them though, one being that they have lost many, many features over the years, and not to mention sound quality. The Nomad JB3 that came out 4 years ago if memory serves me right had a ton of features, like coax inputs and even 2 line outs for hooking up surround sound speakers, as well as dozens of different sound options like reverb effects and normalizers and even speed and pitch controls. Now, 4 years later all my Zen Touch has is about 9 EQ presets and the same 4-band user EQ from 2001. The overall sound quality is on par with the JB3, but I find it so odd that those great features just vanished alltogether (I think the Zen and Zen XTRA line had some of them, but they too had cuts). So im stuck with a player that is 4 years behind in features, with nothing new really aside from wonky touch controls and a random play button, thats literally it. If Creative wants to get a bigger piece of the pie, they need to start taking a hint from companies like Cowon and Rio and giving consumers more options, and Im not talking about video or any of that crap. They need to support lossess, and start pushing sound control and quality, because they are a company first known for sound, not white industrial design or slick marketing. No company can beat Apple at its own game right now. They are what Nintendo was in 1985, and that isnt going to change until Apple starts making stupid decisions. Rio is dead (goddammit that just isnt fair!), and unless Creative sets its sights elsewhere and bides its time instead of thinking it can declare war on Apple, they might suffer the same fate...that is as far as DAPs are concerned. Creative still has a nice beat on the soundcard market last time I checked, and Im pretty sure Apple aint gonna be making them anytime soon, or will they?



MrCookie...You are the first person on this forum that I've seen own a Jukebox 3 and still prefer it to the newer versions.
smily_headphones1.gif


I have owned a Nomad Jukebox 3 for nearly four years now and it's still kicking great! But it's getting a bit long in the tooth now and I'm looking to upgrade. The problem is, I love the features in firmware 1.32.02 and absolutely HATE the firmware changes Creative made to their players during the Jukebox days. Now, I don't know what the LATEST fimware does in Crative's players, but these are the changes I noticed when switching to 1.40.06.




Casualty #1.....

The new way tracks in the "Selected Menu" are treated. When the player is powered off after a certain period of time and starts with a cold bootup, tracks that were in the Selected Music menu that were not part of the playlist group you had active simply vanish and you are required to redistribute them manually back into the selected music menu for queue. That blows!

Changing from the good 'ole "Now Playing" screen to "Selected Music" brought another annoyance in its transition...

When you put the menu on Selected Music and leave it idle for a few seconds, it doesn't stay there and changes back to the *other* "Now Playing" window, where you only see details of the current track and not what's in queue. You have to keep pressing the now playing menu again just to look at, shuffle and organize your tracks. The previous firmwares doesn't do this and keeps the window on "Now Playing".

Finally, the straw that broke the camel's back for me......

The new feature "Displays queued playlists as groups rather than flat lists in the Selected Music screen" is more like a hinderance than it is a "feature". Because queued playlists are now in groups, the JB3 treats them as if they are part of an album group and as a result, in the Selected Music Menu, you can no longer rearrange and change the order of tracks you want played 'outside' of that particular playlist! You have to keep them within the playlist 'group' and cant for exmaple, move track "X" up to the top of the window if the group that it's in is below another playlist. ANNOYING!!!!!!

Why Creative took the time to make these stupid changes is BEYOND me! The Playist/Now Playing format was fine the way it was.

I had to reinstal firmware 1.32.02 back into my JB3 and BOY am I glad I did! 1.32.02 rocks! And has never given me any problems whatsoever other than the occasional once in a blue moon lockup.

Anyway Mr Cookie.... can you please tell me if it is worth upgrading from the Jukebox 3 to the new Zen series? Especially considering how much I am already satisfied with the SQ and UI? Will the new Zen players will allow me to use my old school firmware from my Nomad Jukebox? If not, I will have to consider switching to a whole new brand. But which one?

I have heard good things about the iAudo and iRiver players, but how do they compare sound quality-wise to the Nomad Jukebox 3 players? And do they alllow the user to do the same things that the Jukebox 3 does as far sound effects and features are concerned?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions
smily_headphones1.gif
 
Oct 28, 2005 at 11:19 AM Post #45 of 66
"Are they really expecting people to pay a premium to own a Creative player? "

Well... it depends on what players Creative intend to offer. What kind of question is that? Now companies get laughed at just because they plan on existing in the same marketplace as Apple?
 

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