[Sebastiaan156]

Dear all,

Since a little I notice I dislike all hybrid iem's I own. Things like the Ikko OH1, trn V90 and CCA C10.

Not that they are all bad, love them in some sorts of music.

In some music the voices are really nicely seperated from the music/bass and I love this feature of the hybrids. In music from Joan Baes they are really nice. Or I see fire from Ed Sheeran they also shine.

But I have the feeling dynamic drivers have a different speed from ba drivers. In complicated music/ full of different frequency music they tend to sound really bad to my ears. Think of Wish I had an angel from Nightwish. They mess it up big time sounding off. I have the idea this is because some sounds are being devided between the dd and the ba drivers and they have different speed and decay which rips the music out of Ballance and sounds off.

Not sure if this is the reason but all my single driver style iem's don't have this issieu. T2 only dd is fine, bl-03 only dd is fine'ish, p2 only planar is fine, m300 only is fine but all my hybrids fail hard!

Full size dd or planar are also ok'is noted planar works better than dd for this use case.

Have any of you experienced the same issieu or have an explanation for this?

I use flac files played from PC with a creative ZxR dac amp card and pdv2 and flac files played from phone with a 9038s and dc01. All sources show the same problem.

Is it just a ba problem or a multiple driver problem or as I suspect a hybrid problem?

 

[go_vtec]

Have you heard multiple drivers IEMs (multiple balanced armature drivers) like Shure SE535 or Weston W-series? These are non-hybrid, but multiple drivers that are fairly transparent. I'm not sure if you are picking up improperly balanced hybrid designs (I don't have experiences with the IEMs you've mentioned) or sensitive to different tonality of different technology utilized for hybrid design. A well balanced and properly designed hybrid should be fairly seamless and transparent with the implementation and shouldn't annoy the listeners like you've described.

 

[Sebastiaan156]

Never heared multiple driver iem's with with the same kind of driver, for example multiple ba drivers

 

[go_vtec]

I've listened to an example track, Nightwish's song, and it is fairly complex song with combination of fast drums, slightly recessed vocal, multiple electric guitars including bass with distortion guitar sound effects. Songs like these puts multiple driver IEMs to the test since continuous bass, lowend rumble of bass/drum, and possibly certain range of vocal are need to play through multiple drivers. Passive crossovers located inside of IEMs are responsible for splitting the sound based on the frequency where certain instrumentation or vocal can play through one or more drivers. Depending on the crossovers and drivers, certain sounds can play through two drivers concurrently (there may be slight emphasis on certain frequency) or there may be slight recess or void of certain sound/frequency. On properly designed/tuned IEMs, such emphasis, overlap, or recess are either non-existent or inconceivable. Of course, non-all IEMs are created equal and certain individuals are more sensitive to tonality changes of untuned/unmatched drivers and the placements of the driver locations and how these drivers are tuned and "ported/routed" to your ear canal can make significant differences in perceived sound quality and sonic signature. Perhaps, you can elaborate on what do you mean by "big time sounding off" on your IEMs so the Head-fi community can chime in.

 

[baskingshark]

Dear all,

Since a little I notice I dislike all hybrid iem's I own. Things like the Ikko OH1, trn V90 and CCA C10.

Not that they are all bad, love them in some sorts of music.

In some music the voices are really nicely seperated from the music/bass and I love this feature of the hybrids. In music from Joan Baes they are really nice. Or I see fire from Ed Sheeran they also shine.

But I have the feeling dynamic drivers have a different speed from ba drivers. In complicated music/ full of different frequency music they tend to sound really bad to my ears. Think of Wish I had an angel from Nightwish. They mess it up big time sounding off. I have the idea this is because some sounds are being devided between the dd and the ba drivers and they have different speed and decay which rips the music out of Ballance and sounds off.

Not sure if this is the reason but all my single driver style iem's don't have this issieu. T2 only dd is fine, bl-03 only dd is fine'ish, p2 only planar is fine, m300 only is fine but all my hybrids fail hard!



Full size dd or planar are also ok'is noted planar works better than dd for this use case.

Have any of you experienced the same issieu or have an explanation for this?

I use flac files played from PC with a creative ZxR dac amp card and pdv2 and flac files played from phone with a 9038s and dc01. All sources show the same problem.

Is it just a ba problem or a multiple driver problem or as I suspect a hybrid problem?

Single DDs don't have this issue as it's one driver handling the entire frequency spectrum. But what u described is a not uncommon problem at the budget price point, where occasionally hybrids or multi BAs have crossover/coherency issues. So it's not a matter of stuffing as many drivers into a shell, which some brands like KZ previously were guilty of (but to their credit their latest hybrids like KZ ZS10 Pro and KZ ZSX have improved in this area). Tuning is more important any day.

 

[Redcarmoose]

Everyone in on their own journey. There is no perfect IEM. But there is stuff you can buy that allows you to get lost in music. All of us have had an awakening in audio; becoming an audiophile. When we were young and inexperienced we could go to concerts and simply have fun. Naivety is bliss. Then one year the concerts sounded wrong 1/2 the time. Did the concerts change? No our ability to judge audio changed. It still didn’t mean all the concerts were bad, only we could judge the other shows we would go to on sound quality alone.

So it’s a double edged sword, we get to appreciate fine audio, and be critical too, at times. I have not heard the Nightwish song, but it’s true some music can show the faults of drivers. Also remember everyone hears differently. It’s all an illusion anyway, there is no band in the room it’s some small electronic parts making sound in which we partake in fooling ourself it’s music being played.

Groups of balanced armatures without a DD are responsible for a boatload of artifacts; still many love them. Most of the time hybrids are attempting to exploit both worlds; the detail of the BA and the bass character of the DD. Reverbs are always better with DD drivers. No IEM is perfect though it’s all about finding your tone first. Then finding IEMs which either do multiple genres or IEMs that perform well with the genres you like. It’s a balance of detail and musicality. All of us at one point ended up with too much detail where we were simply listening to the equipment......finding out it was not our desired tone..... or maybe too bright and too revealing of bad recordings or sources. There is no perfect methodology only perfect listening evenings. But tend to think of whole systems and not IEMs as it’s everything; the cable, the DAP and the IEM and music file. The Sony IER-Z1R is a hybrid and many feel it’s disjointed as to blending the three drivers. Many love the IER and don’t notice the issues. Same as balanced armatures, folks either don’t notice or learn to accept the issues.

All of us are on the same journey. Though the best part is our hearing preferences don’t always stay the same. We notice different stuff all the time. Nothing stays the same. But the other end goal should be to find a nice set of IEMs and forget the fact that it’s music reproduced, that it is simply music.......and to get lost in it.

The strange part is most of the IEM issues we notice were not noticed at first. I don’t totally know why that is except we are sometimes distracted by certain sounds. At first we may buy a bass heavy IEM due to the sound being emotional, only to realize it’s boring later on. Many Head-Fi members will actually gravitate to a more neutral tone. That tone can be reached with IEMs, cables or DAPs. Still it’s maybe safe to say what was exciting at first does not stay exciting. Conservative responses that border on boring can become interesting.

 

[Sebastiaan156]

Listens to the OH1 a long time yesterday (one dd one ba) and in most cases they are really nice, the warmth from the dd and the accuracy in the higher regions of the ba are not matched by any single driver design I own or have heard.
Listens to slow jass and some soul list on Spotify.
Also tried some of my flac files music to be sure and things like another brick in the wall from Pink Floyd they do really well.

In that kind of music they layer the music beautifully to my taste, vocals and higher instruments become lose from the bass line and sparkle on the lower constant flow of the music.

But in the example of Nightwish the music is to full and multiple instruments and mabey vocals are seperated over the dd and ba driver. En they start to sound muddy inaccurate and distorted.

Seems this problem is biggest in fast music with a lot of different frequency close to each other.

Like the dd and the ba start to overlap each other, not sure watch it is but it's like the ba is done quicker than the dd which make the instrument sound broken because the music preception seems to be incompleet. Mabey decay is the word I'm not sure.

Full size cans don't seem to have this issieu to this extend, the HE4xx is a little to cold/flat for my taste but with some eq they play all music to my liking, granted that for some music I have to switch off the eq. But for listening to details it needs way more volume than a iem needs.

Iem that does most styles for me is the tin HiFi p1, but I dislike the sound signature besides relatively flat it sounds off in a way I can't describe, first songs on it always make me sad, but after 30 minutes I'm used to it and they have amazing detail, dynamics and even soundstage. They are never put off By any kind of music I fire at them but specific high strings sound a little metallic if that makes sense (mabey they suppose to do so I don't know) but the first songs they sound shrill and boring empty and life less.

 

[go_vtec]

What you described may not be applicable to all hybrid IEMs. There are certainly many IEMs with multiple drivers or hybrid designs that sound pretty good and even said to surpass some full size headphones with moderate price tags. Some of these IEMs fetch significant dollars over more affordable hybrid IEMs. However not all headphones or IEMs are perfect! Some have more flaws and certain flaws can irritate someone while same flaws can be overlooked and can be ignored by others.

Anyone who has been pretty serious about music and has been with Head-fi over long period of time eventually figures out what headphones/earphones can put smile on your face from the moment you put them on your ears until you put them down. We all have different preferences and find that pair of headphones or IEMs that can allow you to enjoy the music with least amount of distractions from their flaws. However all of us are on a limited budget and most of us have limited access to all available headphones/IEMs to find that perfect match. Sometimes we are consumed by our quest for a perfect sound and we listen to the sounds not the musics that brought us here.

It looks like you may have identified some flaws on your gears that started to annoy you and you may also developed more Keen sense of hearing too. You have many gears and many IEMs in your possession. Perhaps you may want to eventually consolidate some of your gears (sell them) then find one or two quality headphones or IEMs that do not force you to “adjust” to its flawed/flat sonic signatures. However you should find opportunities such as head-fi meet, CanJam, or headphone stores that allow you to listen to various and really learn how good some of these IEMs can sound! Of course, some good high end IEMs or headphones can cost some pretty pennies and some of us actually eat peanut butter and jelly sandwich as lunches for months or even years to afford our holy grail of IEMs/headphones. Your mileage may vary, but in my humble opinion, not all hybrid IEMs or multiple driver IEMs have the flaws you’ve mentioned!

 

[Sebastiaan156]

Thnx go_vtec, was indeed wondering if this was a pure hybrid problem. But sounds like there are options that are amazing.

Thnx for your time explaining.

 

[PointyFox]

Insean in the membrean issieu?

 

[Sebastiaan156]

More like some distortion between the ears

 

[Redcarmoose]

More like some distortion between the ears

There is nothing like the mesmerizing distortion of a group of treble boosted balanced armatures doing their thang in the AM.