[katabatik]

I just got my Cowon D2+ and my Phonak PFEs today. I put some MP3 on the D2+ that ranged from female jazz vocals to classical mussic, with some pop/rock and acoutic guitars in between. There was no EQ and all sound effects where turned off. Then I decided to compare the iAudio earphones that came with the D2+ with the PFEs, out of curiosity. Please note that I am new to this, so this is by no means a review. I'm just trying to explain what I did and what are my concerns.

Anyway, to my surprise/shock, I couldn't hear much of a difference between the stock D2+ phones and the PFE!

I thought that maybe it was the quality of the MP3 files that was the cause, so I decided to hear some CDs from my Sony Discman. I swapped the phones countless times and in some musics I actually think the stock phones have a slightly wider soundstage. I tried the grey and black filters and all tips that came with the PFE, settling on the medium silicone ones. After an hour of A-B'ing I came to the following conclusion:

In the PFE, with the grey filters, higher frequencies are mode detailed, but lower frequencies suffer very slightly, i.e., I guess it lacks a bit of bass, even though I'm not, by any means, a basshead.

With black filters, the higher frequencies sound less detailed, but the overall sound is more balanced. I hear very little difference between the stock D2+ phones and the PFE + black filters.

Altogether, I prefer the PFE in most circumstances, but the difference between them and the stock D2+ phones is minimal. In some tracks, I actually like the stock phones better! They seem to have a wider soundstage, seem more balanced and have a "clearer" sound than the PFEs. I also noticed that the positon of the tips of the PFEs inside the ear canal influence the soundstage and the quality of the sound.

I just spent 128 Euros on the PFEs and they sound almost the same as the phones that came with my D2+. If I hadn't had an audiogram 3 months ago and my doctor hadn't told me that my hearing is actually very good, I would have thought that it is my ear's fault. This is very frustrating. Am I missing something here?

 

[piotrus-g]

Quote:

Originally Posted by katabatik /img/forum/go_quote.gif Am I missing something here?

Proper isolation.

 

[ljokerl]

You're missing the time factor. Spend a few weeks exclusively with the PFEs and then go back to the stock earbuds and the differences are sure to be more noticeable. It's been a while since I've heard stock Cowon buds from my D2 and I remember them being not bad at all, but certainly not PFE good.

 

[jleewach]

Soundstage on non-isolating earbuds will usually be slightly better than most isolating iems. That being said, are you positive you have a proper seal on the PFE's? I've heard both stock d2's and pfe's and they're not even in the same league.

I agree that you should spend more time strictly w/ the PFE's. You're probably looking for a HUGE immediate difference in terms of bass, treble, etc... But the PFE's are simply not heavy in terms of bass (not to mention there's a significant bass rolloff on the D2 when all sound enhancements & BBE are turned off.) I'm sorry, but there's no way the 2 earphones are equal. Listen closer...

 

[pi3guy]

I'm of the opinion that details require long-term repeated listening to really pick out. I often get a "I've never noticed THAT before" moment with familiar songs. That said, if you are content with your stock phones, your wallet will thank you.

 

[ethan961]

X2, if you're happy with stock buds, sell the PFE and get the heck out of here before you have a chance to spend any more! After a little bit of time, there's no way out of this wallet eating hobby...

 

[ben4345]

try different tips as well. I have compared my stock cowon buds to my in-ears with improper fitting. It can be night and day thing.

 

[EddieE]

Just has to be a seal issue.

Forgetting detailed differences to sound signature, there is no escaping the fact that PFEs have an incredibly smooth sound while stock Cowon buds are grainy and artificial sounding. If you've got ear drums that should be immediately obvious.

Since PFEs more than any IEM I have ever used really do need a proper seal to sound good (and then they sound amazing) I have to conclude that seal is the issue.

 

[katabatik]

Since everyone seems to agree that this is an isolation issue and since I tried all of the tips that came with the PFE, are there any other tips that are compatible with Phonak PFE? Any recommendations? Thank you.

 

[piotrus-g]

Use stock comply to get isolation (squeez it and put as far as you can in your ear, hope you know that) listen to PFE for 3-4days and then try stock phones. I can asure you that there's no comparsion between these two. I had D2 and I know what I am talking about.

 

[EddieE]

I can't remember the stock number, but the complys that fit Q-Jays (you can search by model on their site) also fit (with a little brute force) - I use these as I have large ear canals and the stock complys are just too small to get a perfect seal. The Q-Jay ones are a just a little larger and give me the perfect seal.

I've read that shure olives can also be forced on, so could be worth a look.

Are you getting the tips right down into your ears?

With foam tips, as piotrus says, squeeze them into a cone, push them into your canals and then let them expand to fill.

With silicones, put them in your ear and then pull your ear out from the top to open your canals as wide as they can be (doing a big smile also seems to work but makes you look a bit stupid in public) and then press them in and release your ears, then the casing.

The "seal" is the same as the sensation of having ear plugs in - your hearing will be a little like it is underwater - you'll know it when you feel it.

 

[katabatik]

By no means do I intend to question piotrus-g experience, but I always thought that if a sound equipment sounds inherently better than another, then you will notice it from the very first minute, not after your ears start to get used to its sound. At least that was what happened when I changed my HI-Fi's loudspeakers some years ago.

I know that human hearing can be extremely adaptable. I live nearby a train station and I don't hear the train anymore because my ears have grown used to it. I have no doubt that after a few days use the PFEs will probably sound better because my ears will get used to them, but that leaves the question: are they really that much better, or is it just my ears getting used to the sound?

EddieE: tanks for advice. I have done that already and actually I find that "your hearing will be a little like it is underwater" sensation a bit discomfortable. As far as sound is concerned, even though the bass improves when the seal is that tight, overall, the sound seems a little "muffled". I like a "clearer" sound.

I could stick with the stock buds, but all earbuds make my ears hurt after about 30 min, no matter how I position them. That is one thing I really liked in the PFEs from the very first minute: their comfort.

 

[Hsiu]

you just need to find the right tip for your ear, PFE with D2 is nice. just turn up the bass enhancement and you will be happy. there are 2 Comply tip type will fit PFE which is the 130 design for PFE and the Comply P-tip for big ear and maximum isolation. other wise just enlarge the hole on olive a little bit to force it on. that also work well.