Could you here the Difference?

[stv014]

Quote:

But you can't see such figure when actually matching with a headphone.
Tell me, did you see ANY headphone stating their THD lower thatn 0.01%?

 
I meant the distortion of the amplifier, not the headphones, which are the same in both cases.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by killkli /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
As for the noise problem, measured noise is around -80dB to -120 dB (higher in lower frequency).
While the signal of 80dBL measure with the microphone is around -20dB, which means that -80dB's noise is about 0.01% distortion. So measured distortion higher than 0.01% is not of the effect of the noise.

 
The graph still does not look right. Although maybe it is really that bad, some "audiophile" amplifiers are actually rather poorly designed and implemented. But if it is indeed caused by the amplifier, it should also appear in the output voltage and current.
 

 

[killkli]

I can tell you that the amplifier measure very great if you just put an ohm resistor and loop-back record it.
My measurement shows that DAC1 can do very great, all under 0.006% across frequency. 
Blackcube is also very good, with DAC1 as source, it can drive with 32 or 100 ohm load ,while keeps the distortion rate under 0.001%.
 
But you can't expect such low distortion while driving an actual headphone unit or speaker unit.
Thus the distortion's small disturbance would be greater for the actually produced sound.
I've put out the result which I got from a microphone recorded result.
These kind of test could also be found on many speaker design forums. Though speaker's distortion is generally higher than headphones.
 
You can just find some microphone and recording equipment and do the test, rather than questioning actual data I've acquired.
 
Please don't keep bothering me with supposed lower specification, I know that all too well. Also I know it's indeed very well if you just loop it back.
But our ear is not made of circuit. We need the driver to move air. 
 
I'm not denying the aim of lowering distortion. Actually I'm ENJOYING low distortion system.
But there are indeed some problems when it is not lowered pass some point.
 
BTW, you would see headphones performs quite differently in distortion factor. I use HE500 in my example because it's the lowest distortion headphone I got.
Most of my other headphone doesn't do as well. Example:
Phillip's cheap SHP2000:

 
btw, I don't have other flagship for testing since I got HE500, I've sold my DT990.
It would be a better comparison, though. I'm regretting the decision..... >_<

 

[stv014]

Quote:

I can tell you that the amplifier measure very great if you just put an ohm resistor and loop-back record it.

 
Why don't you do the loopback test with the headphones as the load, rather than just resistors ?
 

 

[killkli]

Quote:

 
Why don't you do the loopback test with the headphones as the load, rather than just resistors ?
 

LOL.
So your ears are made of circuit?
 
Please, don't make me laugh more in this matter..... I don't want to be insultant but I couldn't help it.
 
Somebody please measure this speaker with a circuit only!

 

[stv014]

For sure, if the amplifier is responsible for the distortion, then it should appear in some form on its output terminals ? Otherwise, how can the same headphone sound better or worse under identical conditions with the exact same signal (voltage and current) driving it ?
If you are sure your measurements are correct, why don't you upload the audio recorded with the microphone so that others can analyze it as well ? It would provide more information than just the graphs.
 

 

[Battou62]

B sounds better to me. Vocals sound clearer with slightly less dynamic range on the instruments.

 

[Tilpo]

B sounds better to me. Vocals sound clearer with slightly less dynamic range on the instruments.

Dynamic range is probably not the term you're looking for. For a recording this strictly refers to the difference in volume between the softest and loudest passages. It is not a property of the instruments.

 

[germanium]

Quote:

Dynamic range is probably not the term you're looking for. For a recording this strictly refers to the difference in volume between the softest and loudest passages. It is not a property of the instruments.

I'm not saying that this is true for every situation & as I have said before if you really want to know how the speaker was design you should contact the manufacturer though I suspect that getting a hold of the actual designers may be difficult with larger companies.There are certain types of speakers that are almost always designed specifically for zero feed back tubes. I suspect most crossovers in speakers now days are designed around transistor amps as that is what is most common. I found that textbook crossovers do not work with transistor amps as you will almost assurredly end up with a hole in the response. If you look at most speaker crossovers now days they are anything but textbook examples. The text books that are readily available were written during the hayday of the vacumm tube, the 1940's & 1950's. Hooking a zero feedback tube amp to many modern speaker will result in peaks at the crossover frequency so one needs to not only consider the type of speaker drive system but also the crossover design when choosing speakers for either kind of amp. This last is likely more important than the former.
 

 

[Tilpo]

I'm not saying that this is true for every situation & as I have said before if you really want to know how the speaker was design you should contact the manufacturer though I suspect that getting a hold of the actual designers may be difficult with larger companies.There are certain types of speakers that are almost always designed specifically for zero feed back tubes. I suspect most crossovers in speakers now days are designed around transistor amps as that is what is most common. I found that textbook crossovers do not work with transistor amps as you will almost assurredly end up with a hole in the response. If you look at most speaker crossovers now days they are anything but textbook examples. The text books that are readily available were written during the hayday of the vacumm tube, the 1940's & 1950's. Hooking a zero feedback tube amp to many modern speaker will result in peaks at the crossover frequency so one needs to not only consider the type of speaker drive system but also the crossover design when choosing speakers for either kind of amp. This last is likely more important than the former.
 

huh?

I was referring to Battou62's description.

 

[Battou62]

Quote:

Dynamic range is probably not the term you're looking for. For a recording this strictly refers to the difference in volume between the softest and loudest passages. It is not a property of the instruments.

Your probably correct, I don't have a lot of experience with these types of tests. Volume or loudness probably would have been the better descriptor.

 

[Deadeight]

Interesting, because A was the file I had preferred. 

 

[JRG1990]

Some of the disortion even from the tube amp may not be audiable http://www.axiomaudio.com/distortion.html .

 

[jaddie]

Quote:

Well. I'll have a little illustration here:
 
One simulated SS amp. One simulated Tube amp.
This test is to see which was more preferable.
 
This should be done under no knowledge of which was which.
Without know what it's for, and just telling which was better would be best but no much interest coming in......
 
 
Hope this would help to get more sample.
 
 

What method was used to create the simulations?

 

[brianar3]

well if you listen to this with HD800's its not quite fair to people listening with bad computer speakers, so whats the point in this test? 
 

 

[jake120]

 I felt the vocals on B were brighter but my impresson was there isnt a huge difference between A vs B.
i wasnt sure but when i re ran them again a few times B definitely felt more on vocals.