[Voldemort]

I downloaded some of those cornell rage demos that I found in WinMX, I don't know if they were just some crap because some had just some guitar noice in it but no songs. But there were few songs, and they sucked big time. It was like Cornell had turned rage into a sucking post grunge band, ****en Nirvana wannabes. Morello played guitar on those songs like he's never even heard that funky stuff he did on rage records. It made me so ****ing mad when I heard it. Rage against the machine was one of the best bands ever and Evil Empire is propably my favorite album. If those demos were real and the cornell+rage album will be full of that **** then **** you Cornell, I hope you die!

 

[NotoriousBIG_PJ]

Whatever man, Morello does some sweet solos on this stuff, which I can't say he has done since Rage's first album..

Biggie.

 

[coolvij]

mm mmmmm ............. his solos are AWESOME on the first album......can't wait for this release if there are gonna be more of those.

 

[kerelybonto]

coolvij, Braver said he likes the lyrics, and I wanted to find out what about them he likes. I tried having a general discussion of political lyrics before, but no one seems ever to say anything besides on the most general level. I know this discussion thing can be a bit intimidating. ...

How do you guys like Renegades? I haven't heard the whole album, but I love every song I have heard. Really take a song and twist it into their own thing pretty well.

kerelybonto

 

[Braver]

....

 

[Braver]

before you wanted to go into discussion I never mentioned liking their lyrics. they're ok and there are some good ones in there. what I said was, the whole concpet of RATM carries a message, which I think is a good deal better than the useless ******** bands with similar styles are spitting out. I have my favorite lyricists, and De La Rocha ain't up there. Fish and H of Marillion, Kevin Moore of Chroma Key (and before that, DT where his lyrics were even better), and that's just off the top of my head.

I have nothing against discussing political lyrics. but if you start it with saying "they're stupid" and with your mind all closed up...I got better things to do.

but, let's just leave it at that, and cut to the fun part.

from Renegades, despite that I don't have the CD, I downloaded a couple (no, all actually) MP3's of the CD. there's a lot of different bands they covered, and I know none of the originals, so...I'm no expert on the matter. but it all is very hard-hitting funky RATM style. they actually mold it to their sound, and it works! now, to me, that's a sign of definite class and quality of a band! almost bought it, but they lost the CD (only had the case), and then I never thought about it again (heavily into prog, from 70's till now, nowadays). Pistol Grip Pump rocks the house apart man! my comp-speakers can't even handle it! lol

 

[coolvij]

Quote:

coolvij, Braver said he likes the lyrics, and I wanted to find out what about them he likes. I tried having a general discussion of political lyrics before, but no one seems ever to say anything besides on the most general level. I know this discussion thing can be a bit intimidating. ...

Yea, that's it, I'm (or is it Braver, or both of us?) am intimidated.

I just felt stating that you thought such lyrics were generally stupid was a bad way to start a discussion but a good way to start argument, know what I mean?

But it seems everyone here is stayin calm and civil.....you can't really blame me for trying to understand what I, wrongly, mistook to be a minor flame.

Head-Fi, as I'm sure you'd agree, isn't a place that anyone wants to see flames take over.


As far as lyrics are concerned, I personally think their only really good stuff, both musically and lyrically, is on the debut album.

Here's Freedom, from the debut:

Solo, I'm a soloist on a solo list
All live, never on a floppy disk
Inka, inka, bottle of ink
Paintings of rebellion
Drawn up by the thoughts I think

The militant poet in once again, check it

It's set up like a deck of cards
They're sending us to early graves
For all the diamonds
They'll use a pair of clubs to beat the spades
With poetry I paint the pictures that hit
More like the murals that fit
Don't turn away
Get in front of it

Brotha, did ya forget ya name?
Did ya lose it on the wall
Playin' tic-tac-toe?

Check the diagonal
Three brothers gone....
Doesn't that make it three in a row?


(and so on)

I think what was interesting about Rage was the rap/grunge/metal combo. I look at the lyrics the same with as I do with decent rap (Public Enemy, The Roots, whatever) - they're more about rythym and overall message than about creating real, beautiful poetry.

I think Freedom is pretty effective - the lyrics have that interesting tic-tac-toe analogy, and they flow fine to my ears.

What's your take?

 

[kerelybonto]

That's exactly what I think -- Rage's lyrics, like most of the bands' I listen to, are good because they sound good. But I very, very rarely find a lyric anywhere that I like because of what it means. That's why I generally dislike political lyrics per se, but I also find that I dislike them because of the things they say. I'll dig up a Rage lyric from Battle and show you what I mean. ...

And I'm always calm and civil.

kerelybonto

 

[coolvij]

Well, head-fi isn't always the calmest, most civil place, though it usually is

Anyway, the way I see it, Rage's lyrics are more of a wake-up call. They say lots of inflammatory things on their albums because I think they want people to be more aware of social issues. By taking a SUPER-FLASHY LOOK WE ARE PISSED AND CAN YELL approach, well, they do get your attention. At least for while your listening, right?

I think that they purpousely are inflammotary just because of what I see on their site....as far as activism, they're not that bad. Not extremist at all, IMO. Listening to their music, you wouldn't think that, though....

 

[ai0tron]

Screw rage against the machine. It's like rap music for the Ivy League. In form and principle.

 

[Braver]

Quote:

Originally posted by coolvij I think that they purpousely are inflammotary just because of what I see on their site....as far as activism, they're not that bad. Not extremist at all, IMO. Listening to their music, you wouldn't think that, though....

they're just leftist socialist who are very aware of what is happening around them. I agree they use that extreme approach to 'wake you up'. y'know, the government ain't holy. specially the US (our ain't so hot sometimes either). most of the people would just rather ignore it, so they won't have to worry about anything but themselves. that's what they're raging against.

they're intelligent people too y'know. Morello did Harvard. it's not like they're making a lot of noise just for the sake of it (Limp Bizkit amyone?). if it really helps, I doubt it. but as a leftist socialist with an interest in history, I like the concept of it.

ai0tron, thanks for the very helpfull contribution to the discussion. it really helped a lot. really...

 

[coolvij]

Hmm, leftist socialist, eh? I've never really thought about labeling my own political views, on one hand, I sympathize with Socialists and think the scary part about the Red Scare were the people who were "scared."

At the same time I have a few conservative views........hmmm


What I was saying, though, is that their music is considerably more extremist than THEY appear to be, at least judging from their website. I mean, Morello is a Harvard grad., and his prose demonstrates a sensitive, intelligiently paranoid way of communication - this from that Mumia Abu Jamal (sp?) article.


He sure wasn't going **** YOU I WON'T DO WHAT YOU TELL ME or talking about music.

He was being a smart, concerned citizen.

See what I mean?

 

[coolvij]

ai0tron: LMAO!!!!!!

You so funny.

 

[BDA_ABAT]

Unfortunately, it's very easy to sympathize with leftist/socialists when you are young. Why? When you're young, you generally have nothing of material value to loose. When you have nothing much to loose and other folks offer you something (for nothing, welll... not EXACTLY nothing, just a little, ok, well maybe a LOT of independance, free will, autonomy), it sounds really good. Add some tincture of time and experience, you'll quickly realize that the socialist philosophy that folks like Rage rant about is not necessarily the best philosophy to get tied to. Didn't Churchill say something like, "Democracy is the worst form of government, except compared to all the rest."?

Interesting, Rage rants against globalization, yet signs with a major global media and consumer giant. Consistency much?

Morello is a Harvard grad... he has benefitted greatly from a life of priveldge yet decries the process that allowed him to obtain this background and education. Consistency much?

Sorta like shouting to the world that you are vegetarian and screaming at all those murderers who eat meat, then immediately go into McDonalds for a burger and fries.

Bruce

 

[Braver]

Quote:

Originally posted by BDA_ABAT Unfortunately, it's very easy to sympathize with leftist/socialists when you are young. Why? When you're young, you generally have nothing of material value to loose. When you have nothing much to loose and other folks offer you something (for nothing, welll... not EXACTLY nothing, just a little, ok, well maybe a LOT of independance, free will, autonomy), it sounds really good. Add some tincture of time and experience, you'll quickly realize that the socialist philosophy that folks like Rage rant about is not necessarily the best philosophy to get tied to. Didn't Churchill say something like, "Democracy is the worst form of government, except compared to all the rest."?

you can argue about that as much as you want, and either way, different people see things differently. but, clinging to material stuff is useless IMO. I think you should look beyond your car and your bankaccount.. my parents are doing ok for themselves, but they're also very aware of what they can mean to others. they're in a postition to pull strings to help others, and they use that position. instead of holding on to their money till they die and have done nothing usefull for others. the time and experience didn't change their view of the world into conservative capitalism. I believe that's what's socialism about, more than the political systems associated with it, and more than your income.

Quote:

Morello is a Harvard grad... he has benefitted greatly from a life of priveldge yet decries the process that allowed him to obtain this background and education. Consistency much'?

education and knowledge creates awareness. it is so important, best to grab whatever you can. and since when can you not question your background? if capitalism is what got him where he is, where would a more socialist world have taken him? perhaps somewhere completely different, but that's not the point, now is it?