[Zack117]

Dear Head-Fi,
 
two years ago I moved into the depths of the audiophile headphone world. This site in particular was my main source of information and I am very thankful for that.
After a week of extensive and I mean extensive research (mainly on the web), I decided to get myself the DT880 600 Ohm Edition and the FiiO E17+E09k combo. Back then, that setup seemed to offer the best bang for my buck to me. FiiO products are highly available, also here in germany so I didn't have to deal with import issues.
 
Since it was my first setup on the rather audiophile side, you can imagine how it blew me away. I won't bother to describe the indescribable as it would go beyond the scope of this thread.
 
So why this thread?
I love my 880s and don't want to do without them again, at least not at this juncture. But for a couple of months now, I have this feeling bothering me that I could make more out of my headphones.
Since I started to work last year, my budget has increased a bit and with it my demands.
Back then my budget was about 250€ for a dac/amp solution. Now I am willing to spend up to 500€ for a dac/amp, maybe even some more if necessary in order to enhance my listening experience.
 
I am aware that "making out more of my headphones" sounds very general and I'm not good in describing sound. You guys probably think that I don't even know what I want and maybe you're right. Still, I wondered if I could get something significantly "better" than my current FiiO setup which is known to be more on the cold, brighter and harsher side of things. I've always wanted to know how a warm and smooth signature sounds and I've read that it would pair well with the 880s, so that may be the right thing for me? Perhaps a tube amp?
 
So in other words: What better products are there in a similar/slightly higher price range than the E17 and E09k? As I said before, my budget is about 500€ if you guys can give me a good recommendation I may be willing to spend even more.
 
My demands: I prefer an all-in-one desktop solution (dac+amp) but I'd not be aversed to a combination of both separate components. My pc is used for listening to lossless music and watching anime/movies, currently via USB to my FiiO setup. Toslink is needed for gaming consoles. E17 is always in bybass mode (dac only without EQ). I want things more neutral since I'm using the same setup for so many different purposes.
 
So far the products of Maverick Audio and Audio-GD look quiet appealing to me.
 
Do you guys have any advice/recommendation for me?

 

[MrTechAgent]

If you are just care about performance I think you should look into the Violectric HPA V90, Thomann has it for €396.
Beyerdynamic-Violectric is the way to go.
You can add a DAC on top of that. If you can extend your budget to €700, I would suggest the V200. The SPL Auditor is another great choice. All these Amplifers due to the reserve @600Ohm just make Beyerdynamics sing.
A DT880's performance on the V200 really puts Summit-Fi Dynamics to shame.

*Not AIO which you prefer but its a agreeable trade-off for the performance you get.

 

[PurpleAngel]

Audio-GD NFB-15, $270+shipping.
 
Low import tax, as Audio-GD will list the unit, with the shipper, as having a value of $100, not the $270.

 

[Zack117]

Damn, my entire post got lost when trying to preview it... anyway, thanks for your input!
 
Quote:

  Audio-GD NFB-15, $270+shipping.
 
Low import tax, as Audio-GD will list the unit, with the shipper, as having a value of $100, not the $270.

The NFB-15 looks very appealing and I see it being often recommended here, not to mention the price. Inputs also seem to be ideal for my purposes and switching between optical (gaming console) and usb (pc) should be comfortable. I wonder if someone here has a comparison between the NFB-15 and my current FiiO setup. Or can it be generally considered as better in terms of performance?
 

  If you are just care about performance I think you should look into the Violectric HPA V90, Thomann has it for €396.
Beyerdynamic-Violectric is the way to go.
You can add a DAC on top of that. If you can extend your budget to €700, I would suggest the V200. The SPL Auditor is another great choice. All these Amplifers due to the reserve @600Ohm just make Beyerdynamics sing.
A DT880's performance on the V200 really puts Summit-Fi Dynamics to shame.

*Not AIO which you prefer but its a agreeable trade-off for the performance you get.

Interesting devices. Someone in my country is currently selling his used V800 DAC for 550€ (warranty expired). But then again, I suppose it only makes sense to combine it with an adequate amplifier like the V200 or V90 you've mentioned. I'm also wondering if a +/-1000€ setup makes sense with my 250€ cans. Maybe it's overdimensioned. I still want to get my hands on a T1 someday though...
 
I'm also currently lacking the idea of the dimensions we're talking about. I mean, how does a 250$ NFB-15 compare to a +1000€ V800 + V200/V90? In the end we're talking about a lot of money here. From what I've read on the net, Violectric products can be considered as high end in the HiFi headphone section, thus I won't need to think about an upgrade ever again? At least not for a decade maybe...
 
Any further recommendations/suggestions? Feel free!

 

[PurpleAngel]

  The NFB-15 looks very appealing and I see it being often recommended here, not to mention the price. Inputs also seem to be ideal for my purposes and switching between optical (gaming console) and usb (pc) should be comfortable. I wonder if someone here has a comparison between the NFB-15 and my current FiiO setup. Or can it be generally considered as better in terms of performance?
 
Any further recommendations/suggestions? Feel free!

 
The NFB-15 comes with dual DAC chips, the E17 only one.
The NFB-15 comes with S/PDIF (optical & coaxial) connects so you can still use the sound card features.
USB bypasses the sound card feature and the E09K only has USB.

 

[cel4145]

Any further recommendations/suggestions? Feel free!

Spend a little more than the NFB-15 and get the NFB-11

 

[MrTechAgent]

  Interesting devices. Someone in my country is currently selling his used V800 DAC for 550€ (warranty expired). But then again, I suppose it only makes sense to combine it with an adequate amplifier like the V200 or V90 you've mentioned. I'm also wondering if a +/-1000€ setup makes sense with my 250€ cans. Maybe it's overdimensioned. I still want to get my hands on a T1 someday though...
 
I'm also currently lacking the idea of the dimensions we're talking about. I mean, how does a 250$ NFB-15 compare to a +1000€ V800 + V200/V90? In the end we're talking about a lot of money here. From what I've read on the net, Violectric products can be considered as high end in the HiFi headphone section, thus I won't need to think about an upgrade ever again? At least not for a decade maybe...

Well, your 250€ cans are Over-Performing for the price and use Dynamic Membrane Technology which the puny company (In terms of Innovation) SONY copied and came up with a similar material for their R10 - Bio-Cellulose.
I think the Vio is all you need, of course since this hobby is hard to forget, your journey will not reach an impasse this quick
 

 

[Zack117]

Thanks a lot for your input folks!
 
Quote:

   
The NFB-15 comes with dual DAC chips, the E17 only one.
The NFB-15 comes with S/PDIF (optical & coaxial) connects so you can still use the sound card features.
USB bypasses the sound card feature and the E09K only has USB.

Are both DAC chips of the NFB-15 utilized simultaneously and do they perform better than one single chip (at least in theory)?
And what exactly do you mean by "sound card features"?
 

Spend a little more than the NFB-15 and get the NFB-11

Oh, I wasn't even aware of the NFB-11 model, thanks for pointing it out.

Had one of you guys the opportunity to try out both, the NFB-15 and NFB-11?
I did a bit of research for both devices and the price difference seems to be due to the installed DAC chips. Sabre is used in NFB-11 which does allegedly sound slightly more neutral whilst the two WM8741 chips from the NFB-15 are more on the warm side.
Just saw that my FiiO E17 uses the WM8740. But I assume those differences in digital processing are way less audible than physical amplification.

 
Well, your 250€ cans are Over-Performing for the price and use Dynamic Membrane Technology which the puny company (In terms of Innovation) SONY copied and came up with a similar material for their R10 - Bio-Cellulose.
I think the Vio is all you need, of course since this hobby is hard to forget, your journey will not reach an impasse this quick
 

Just read some reviews about the V200 and the SPL Auditor. Just as you said, both of them seem to be excellent choices but I suppose it wouldn't make much sense to pair it with my current E17. Thus I guess an adequate DAC is necessary.
 
I've asked asked for advice in other places too and many people hardly recommended me to get higher class headphones before considering new rig to drive them. And I think they are right about that. A new headphone model should make the biggest difference. The question is, if it does for the better.
What do you guys think of this?

 

[cel4145]

Had one of you guys the opportunity to try out both, the NFB-15 and NFB-11?
I did a bit of research for both devices and the price difference seems to be due to the installed DAC chips. Sabre is used in NFB-11 which does allegedly sound slightly more neutral whilst the two WM8741 chips from the NFB-15 are more on the warm side.
Just saw that my FiiO E17 uses the WM8740. But I assume those differences in digital processing are way less audible than physical amplification.

Yep. That's my understanding of the difference between the two as well. The Sabre is supposed to be a bit more neutral and refined.

 

[PurpleAngel]

  Are both DAC chips of the NFB-15 utilized simultaneously and do they perform better than one single chip (at least in theory)?
And what exactly do you mean by "sound card features"?

 
With the NFB-15, each WM8741 DAC chip processes one audio channel.
So the two DAC chips are working in parallel.
I guess each WM8741 could process two audio channel, on it's own.
But by just sending one audio channel thru each WM8741, the SNR is higher (as best my knowledge).
 
Normally computer audio pass thru the on-board (or internal add-on) sound card, being able to use the cards feature like headphone surround sound, the EQ, the mixer, smart volume, etc.
The sound card can then output the audio out the headphone jack or the speaker jacks or S/PDIF (optical or coaxial) outputs.
 
Where as USB bypasses the sound card, so none of the sound card features can be used.

 

[LoryWiv]

I run my DT 880's (600 ohm) through iFi iDSD Micro DAC / Amp. It is desktop or portable rig capable, and it's high gain (turbo) mode enables detail and much glorious musical quality from the Beyers. Good luck on your journey, Zack117.