Connecting an external dac to a receiver?

[GustavMahler]

The av receiver will output a signal to a tv and will be connected to multiple speakers. Is it possible to hook up an external dac to the receiver and then an amp and then headphones? I want to watch tv and listen to discs with my headphones sometimes and not through the receiver's medium quality headphone amp
EDIT: I understand i can connect a digital output from the receiver to the dac. Now i have to options: Connect the dac back to the receiver with analoge cables and use the receiver as an amp, Both for headphones and for speakers, Or to connect the dac to an external amp and then to headphones. My question is-If i do the second thing, Will i be able to listen through speakers too without connecting any more cables, Or the analg connection from the dac(Which gets digital info from the receiver)has to go back to the receiver in order to get sound from the speakers? Can i configure within the av receiver's settings if i want to use the external dac or the internal with the speakers?

 

[PleasantSounds]

How bad is the DAC in your receiver?
I understand that you may want to use a dedicated hp amp (although some receivers are surprisingly good at powering headphones) - if that's all you need than why not use line outs from the receiver to the hp amp?
With the DAC you're complicating things a bit. First of all you need a digital out in the receiver. If that's not an issue and you're happy to use the DAC just for your headphones then this is OK too. What you may have a problem with is using the external DAC for your speaker output (which you don't have to). The issue is that you select the source of signal on the receiver to be for example your CD player, and the signal goes CD player -> receiver -> DAC. Then it needs to go back to the receiver for amplification, so your source would have to be the DAC, not CD player.....
I don't think many receivers support this kind of routing, and the ones that do are also likely to have a very decent DAC onboard.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

  How bad is the DAC in your receiver?
I understand that you may want to use a dedicated hp amp (although some receivers are surprisingly good at powering headphones) - if that's all you need than why not use line outs from the receiver to the hp amp?
With the DAC you're complicating things a bit. First of all you need a digital out in the receiver. If that's not an issue and you're happy to use the DAC just for your headphones then this is OK too. What you may have a problem with is using the external DAC for your speaker output (which you don't have to). The issue is that you select the source of signal on the receiver to be for example your CD player, and the signal goes CD player -> receiver -> DAC. Then it needs to go back to the receiver for amplification, so your source would have to be the DAC, not CD player.....
I don't think many receivers support this kind of routing, and the ones that do are also likely to have a very decent DAC onboard.

 
I've been saying that. A simpler signal chain done the right way is better than complicating everything, and if it really needs to do very specific things, like getting all sorts of combinations of inputs and outputs in a whole home audio system, doing it "right" is usually going to be expensive.

 

[GustavMahler]

I think going receiver, dac, amp and headphones is the best solution. I can output signal to the tv via hdmi and at the same time output signal to the dac, Right?

 

[ProtegeManiac]

  I think going receiver, dac, amp and headphones is the best solution. I can output signal to the tv via hdmi and at the same time output signal to the dac, Right?

 
If your receiver or HDTV has an SPDIF bypass, yes. But again, are all those all in the same room? If not, then how do you control playback on whatever source is on the receiver?

 

[GustavMahler]

All of them are in the same room. What do you mean by SPDIF bypass? The receiver has an SPDIF output. Don't i need to  disconnect the SPDIF cable every time i want to listen through the speakers, Or can i choose in the receiver settings wether i want sound from speakers or SPDIF? Also there are 2 coax output on my receiver. What can i use that with?
And if the resolution of my computer is low and i want to watch with higher res on my TV, Is it possible? Or it;ll show the res of my pc? Also, If i send an analog signal from the dac to the receiver the only option is aux cable, Right?
This is my receiver: http://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio-visual/av-receivers-amps/rx/rx-v565_black__u/
Are there features i need which are missing? I may upgrade if it's really matters. 
To sum up my requirments:
I need to watch a my cd player, Bluray player  and laptop and desktop computer (The laptop won't be connected all the time) On my tv. I need to listen to audio from all of these either on my speakers or my dac+amp and headphones. I don't want to switch cables all the times. I would much rather press a button on the receiver to change the video and audio output and input.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

  What do you mean by SPDIF bypass? The receiver has an SPDIF output. 

 
I mean the digital signal has to come from something else into the receiver, then it bypasses the receiver's DAC and amplifier circuit and instead goes back out as the same digital signal to your DAC. Unless, of course, your receiver has USB or LAN connections for HDDs and NAS, which means the receiver is technically your media server (just not the storage) device, so the SPDIF signal is technically coming from only the receiver.
 

  All of them are in the same room. What do you mean by SPDIF bypass? The receiver has an SPDIF output. Don't i need to  disconnect the SPDIF cable every time i want to listen through the speakers, Or can i choose in the receiver settings wether i want sound from speakers or SPDIF? Also there are 2 coax output on my receiver. What can i use that with?
And if the resolution of my computer is low and i want to watch with higher res on my TV, Is it possible? Or it;ll show the res of my pc? Also, If i send an analog signal from the dac to the receiver the only option is aux cable, Right?
This is my receiver: http://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio-visual/av-receivers-amps/rx/rx-v565_black__u/
Are there features i need which are missing? I may upgrade if it's really matters. 
To sum up my requirments:
I need to watch a my cd player, Bluray player  and laptop and desktop computer (The laptop won't be connected all the time) On my tv. I need to listen to audio from all of these either on my speakers or my dac+amp and headphones. I don't want to switch cables all the times. I would much rather press a button on the receiver to change the video and audio output and input.
 

 

  Don't i need to  disconnect the SPDIF cable every time i want to listen through the speakers, Or can i choose in the receiver settings wether i want sound from speakers or SPDIF?

 
You can select that from the receiver, but chances are you still have to switch it on along with the TV to select the bypass output, then go to your DAC. Too much trouble if you ask me, which you can simplify by just setting up an NAS that all your systems can access.
 

 
And if the resolution of my computer is low and i want to watch with higher res on my TV, Is it possible? Or it;ll show the res of my pc? 

 
If your PC's or laptop's GPU is capable of handling whatever higher resolution you want (AFAIK even the GPUs built into Intel and AMD APUs nowadays can do 1080P) and you hook that up to the TV via HDMI then it will show that resolution - the GPU is what matters, not your monitor's (how old are your computers anyway? my $400 Acer laptop does 1080P). If you want upscaling for older files/DVDs, then you need to have an upscaler on the TV or the receiver (in which case you hook up the computer to the receiver). 
 

  Also, If i send an analog signal from the dac to the receiver the only option is aux cable, Right?

 
Hold on - I thought your goal was to send a signal from the receiver (to which your CDP is hooked up) to the DAC so you can monitor video while using your headphones? I'm confused right now. How will you even hook up the DAC to both the balanced headphone amp and the receiver? Does your receiver have balanced inputs, or does your DAC have SE outputs? 

I am seriously confused now - why not contact a pro installer in your area to have him just wire up the entire room with a source and output selector? Big houses (like the manor in Cruel Intentions for example) have such devices, especially back in the days when people used 200 disc changers. Obviously, though, the kinds of people who can afford that live in manors.
 

  Also there are 2 coax output on my receiver. What can i use that with?
 
This is my receiver: http://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio-visual/av-receivers-amps/rx/rx-v565_black__u/
Are there features i need which are missing? I may upgrade if it's really matters. 

 
 
Alright, I just looked it up - there are ZERO digital outputs from your receiver that can be used to send a signal to the DAC. The two "coax" (orange) sockets are for input. The two coaxial sockets (red and white) labelled "audio output" are analog - this is for Zone 2, for example you can have your HT in the living room then wire up two outdoor speakers in the patio for when you're grilling and eating outside with friends.
 
This receiver is fairly new, hence, unlike the older, upper range receivers, there are no bypass SPDIF outputs.
 

 
To sum up my requirments:
I need to watch a my cd player, Bluray player  and laptop and desktop computer (The laptop won't be connected all the time) On my tv. I need to listen to audio from all of these either on my speakers or my dac+amp and headphones. I don't want to switch cables all the times. I would much rather press a button on the receiver to change the video and audio output and input.

 
Again, the best if not the only way to achieve all this is to just use an NAS and a network receiver, then whatever computer you're using with the others. I mean, why duplicate sources? If you have everything set up to use the files stored in an NAS, then whichever one you use be it the network receiver or the the DAC, they can access the exact same file - the network receiver will access it directly, the computer hooked up to the DAC will access it and then send a signal to the DAC. Simple, everything works, done. No fussing around with cables running from one device to another, no need to take the laptop from one system to another, no need to even fire up the CDP or BluRay since you can store digital rips of the CDs and HD movies in the NAS.

 

[GustavMahler]

Again, the best if not the only way to achieve all this is to just use an NAS and a network receiver, then whatever computer you're using with the others. I mean, why duplicate sources? If you have everything set up to use the files stored in an NAS, then whichever one you use be it the network receiver or the the DAC, they can access the exact same file - the network receiver will access it directly, the computer hooked up to the DAC will access it and then send a signal to the DAC. Simple, everything works, done. No fussing around with cables running from one device to another, no need to take the laptop from one system to another, no need to even fire up the CDP or BluRay since you can store digital rips of the CDs and HD movies in the NAS.

I'll need a dac with USB input though.
So with a network receiver i'll be able even to play movies from the NAS and send them to the TV from the receiver, Right?
And if i want to use the DAC i'll need to use the computer to play the movies. 

 

[ProtegeManiac]

  I'll need a dac with USB input though.

 
Sure, use a DAC with USB. The computer hooks up to the NAS and sends the audio signal to the DAC via USB.
 

 
And if i want to use the DAC i'll need to use the computer to play the movies. 

 
Yep. You just need to be able to send a signal from the computer to the TV. Get a dedicated GPU with HDMI (as per the other thread) and then hook that up to the TV's other HDMI inputs, since your receiver now has no SPDIF outputs, and likely neither do any of the newer ones within the same price range.
 

 
So with a network receiver i'll be able even to play movies from the NAS and send them to the TV from the receiver, Right?

 
No, not from the TV to the receiver (although technically you could if your TV and receiver are using HDMI1.4 with a digital audio return channel), it's the receiver that hooks up to the NAS via LAN. The receiver then sends video to the TV. Think of the NAS as an optical disc, but instead of playing it through a player and then sending the audio and video to the receiver via HDMI, the receiver does that, keeps the audio for its own DSP and DAC, then sends video to the TV.

 

[GustavMahler]

Okay, So for now i'll connect the computer straight to the TV via a dedicated GPU with HDMI output, And the computer will output audio for the DAC too. Then if i want to watch the movie with my speakers-I'll just connect the TV to the receiver (While the TV is receiving the video and audio from the computer) And the receiver will power the speakers. That's a good idea, No? So i don't really need a NAS. My movies and music will be shared via a home network from my other, Big storage computer. Then i will access all those files from the other computer in the room where my speakers, My receiver and my TV are. If i'll ever need to watch a bluray disc i'll connect a BD player to the receiver and then to the TV, And i'll switch in the TV input options from the HDMI from the computer to the HDMI from the BD player (Though wenn i'll use the BD player i won't be able to use the dac, But i woudn't be able to do so even if i had a NAS)

 

[ProtegeManiac]

  Okay, So for now i'll connect the computer straight to the TV via a dedicated GPU with HDMI output, And the computer will output audio for the DAC too.

 

Yep, just make sure you manually set the DAC as the default audio device or it might send all audio through the HDMI as well.

 

BTW, if you'll be using that computer for recording, what are its specs? You might want to use at least a quad core Intel i5 for that - it'll be a completely different discussion but the thing is you'd have to build a computer that can adequately cool the CPU (and also the GPU) while running silent. The fans should make minimal noise or else your mics might pick up the sound - my gaming rig has two 29dB fans for intake and a 20dB fan+radiator on the exhaust, plus the GPU fans - once I have my headphones on I can't hear it at all but there are times when my brother who I'm playing with online can already hear all the racket through my cheap mic. Of course, I overclocked the CPU and GPU and actually need the cooling performance.
 

  Then if i want to watch the movie with my speakers-I'll just connect the TV to the receiver (While the TV is receiving the video and audio from the computer) And the receiver will power the speakers. That's a good idea, No? 

 

That assumes you have HDMI1.4 on your TV and receiver, since that version has the audio return channel - ie any audio going into the TV from another HDMI connection can also be sent to the receiver. It's usually a cable box, so you have the option of using the TV's sound for most shows then when some movie on cable comes up with surround sound you can use the receiver.

 

[GustavMahler]

How do i know if i have HDMI1.4? I've never seen the version of the HDMI specified. I always see "2 HDMI input" Without specifying its version.

Either way, I can connect the HDMI from the computer to the receiver and then to the TV instead of straight to the TV and i won't have this problem of HDMI1.4

ANd if i have SPDIF output on my PC, I'll be able to connect the DAC to it while still letting the PC output audio+video to the receiver, Or it'll only send video to the receiver?
 

As to my pc, This is my rig: 
CPU: Intel Core i5-3570K overclocked to 4.5Ghz
Cooling: Noctua NH-D14
GPU: ASUS GTX580
Ram: G-Skill 8GB (4X2)
Motherboard: ASUS Sabertooth Z77
Power Supply: Corsair HX750
Case: Thermaltake Chaser MK1
 
It's a custom PC i built, And it's awesome. It's a shame i don't play that much. THe fans aren't very noisy.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

 

How do i know if i have HDMI1.4? I've never seen the version of the HDMI specified. I always see "2 HDMI input" Without specifying its version.

Either way, I can connect the HDMI from the computer to the receiver and then to the TV instead of straight to the TV and i won't have this problem of HDMI1.4

ANd if i have SPDIF output on my PC, I'll be able to connect the DAC to it while still letting the PC output audio+video to the receiver, Or it'll only send video to the receiver?

 
Check your TV's specs, it should be there somewhere. As for the receiver, Yamaha's website doesn't say so and I came across a few forums saying only the RX-Vxx7 series have it. Just hook up the GPU to the receiver.
 
Anyways, more info on HDMI1.4 - http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hdmi_1_4/arc.aspx
 
 

 

As to my pc, This is my rig: 
CPU: Intel Core i5-3570K overclocked to 4.5Ghz
Cooling: Noctua NH-D14
GPU: ASUS GTX580
Ram: G-Skill 8GB (4X2)
Motherboard: ASUS Sabertooth Z77
Power Supply: Corsair HX750
Case: Thermaltake Chaser MK1
 
It's a custom PC i built, And it's awesome. It's a shame i don't play that much. THe fans aren't very noisy.

 
I'd use almost exactly the same internal parts if it's a gaming rig and media workstation, especially the cooler.  If anything I'd use a smaller case, mobo, and fewer fans (like the Fractal Define or Mini version) but if it's near silent when it's the only thing running in that room, then that's good enough.
 
Regarding HDMI - you sure it doesn't have any? I Googled your mobo and GPU, and some versions of the GTX 580 (the Asus actually) looks like it has a mini HDMI port next to the mini Display Port; the NVidia reference card is the one that doesn't have it. The mobo also looked like it had HDMI ports under the optical output.

 

[GustavMahler]

Yes, This pc has HDMI, But it's in the other room, Where i'll record. The pc in the receiver's room doesn't have HDMI..
I am really confused what the sur. decode, straight and direct mode do. I have no idea what to choose when using 2 speakers and when 5.1. Also is Music video, Chamber, Concert Hall modes etc are other decoders like sur. decode, strait and direct decoders- Or is it an effect addition to the decoders? SO i can choose Straight and then chamber for added effect?
2) Also when i am outputting video from my laptop to my receiver through HDMI the receiver shows it's getting 1080i. Why doesn't it get 1080p and what is the difference, And why is it caused? What limits it? If i change to another HDMI cable will i then get 1080p?
3) And last thing-I can connect my laptop to the receiver or straight to the TV using HDMI and then to choose in the computer wether the output is the receiver (And also TV) Or my DAC and it works. So does it mean i have HDMI 1.4 And that i can connect the PC to TV, THen TV to receiver and get sound from the receiver? 
4) What is AC3 filter? Do i need that if i connect my PC to the receiver?
5) If i connect my monitor to the HDMI port of the mobo of my gaming PC-The active GPU will be the built in one, Right? Is there a way to send the GTX580 signal through this connection? I have mini HDMI on my gtx580 but i don't have a cable for it..
6)I see that in my movie player (Potplayer) I can choose an audio decoder. Will it affect the sound the receiver gets? Isn't the decoding happens in the receiver anyway, So does it matter what decoder i choose in the PC? And if i use a decoder in the PC it means that the receiver receives uncompressed audio so it doesn't have to decode, RIght? 
7) My laptop doesn't support SPDIF output for the AC3filter. If i get an external USB soundcard will it support SPDIF through the laptop's HDMI? 
And what is SPDIF output through HDMI? I thought SPDIF could be output only from SPDIF.. It really got me confused.. I need to set SPDIF output in AC3filter in order to pass AC3 through HDMI.. 
'

 

[ProtegeManiac]

  Yes, This pc has HDMI, But it's in the other room, Where i'll record. The pc in the receiver's room doesn't have HDMI.

 

Oh, right, just get the most affordable GPU with HDMI that can handle 1080P - I think that's most if not all of the current ones, the only real difference is the frame rates at 1080P and higher.

 

 

  I am really confused what the sur. decode, straight and direct mode do. I have no idea what to choose when using 2 speakers and when 5.1. Also is Music video, Chamber, Concert Hall modes etc are other decoders like sur. decode, strait and direct decoders- Or is it an effect addition to the decoders? SO i can choose Straight and then chamber for added effect?

 

It's just some kind of area simulating DSP effect. I'd keep any of those switched off, but check your manual as "direct" might skip the DSP altogether and that's usually where they have the x-over for the subwoofer (ie car audio processors use similar DSP chips, sometimes with just a different firmware program since they need x-overs at higher frequencies for example).

 
 
 

 
2) Also when i am outputting video from my laptop to my receiver through HDMI the receiver shows it's getting 1080i. Why doesn't it get 1080p and what is the difference, And why is it caused? What limits it? If i change to another HDMI cable will i then get 1080p?

 

It's the GPU in your laptop, and no cable can upgrade that. As for the difference, Google is a very useful tool: https://www.google.com.ph/search?sourceid=chrome-psyapi2&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8&q=1080p%20vs%201080i

 
 

 
3) And last thing-I can connect my laptop to the receiver or straight to the TV using HDMI and then to choose in the computer wether the output is the receiver (And also TV) Or my DAC and it works. So does it mean i have HDMI 1.4 And that i can connect the PC to TV, THen TV to receiver and get sound from the receiver? 

 

You could technically do that but the problem is that your receiver has no HDMI1.4 and you still don't know if your TV has one. Welcome to HT, where everything can get outdated a lot faster than 2ch audio, and more so when you expect a lot of convenience out of it.
 
 

  4) What is AC3 filter? Do i need that if i connect my PC to the receiver?

 

I think that's for digital copies/formats like AVI. My PC had those installed with the media players.

 

More from Google links here: https://www.google.com.ph/search?newwindow=1&espv=2&q=AC3+filter&oq=AC3+filter&gs_l=serp.3..0j0i10j0l2j0i22i30l6.175941.177957.0.178158.10.10.0.0.0.0.176.959.0j6.6.0.msedr...0...1c.1.61.serp..4.6.959.r4IHk08_Tto

 

Quote:

 
5) If i connect my monitor to the HDMI port of the mobo of my gaming PC-The active GPU will be the built in one, Right? Is there a way to send the GTX580 signal through this connection? I have mini HDMI on my gtx580 but i don't have a cable for it..

 

Mobo HDMI port will use the integrated graphics. Just buy the cable - it doesn't have to be an expensive one but of course even if you buy it from a hardware store, the longer it is, the more you'll pay.
 
 

 
6)I see that in my movie player (Potplayer) I can choose an audio decoder. Will it affect the sound the receiver gets? Isn't the decoding happens in the receiver anyway, So does it matter what decoder i choose in the PC? And if i use a decoder in the PC it means that the receiver receives uncompressed audio so it doesn't have to decode, RIght? 

 

Check with the info on that player, but when you hook it up look at the options. It may refer to hardware, so you can select the receiver (as opposed to other audio decoders that it may detect, like the DAC on USB or optical for example, or the interface on USB), or it may be about software codecs. Windows doesn't come with codecs for FLAC for example, on top of many video formats, so you either download a codec pack for Windows Media Player or you just install other players that have the codec built-in. I use VLC and MediaMonkey.

 

 

 
7) My laptop doesn't support SPDIF output for the AC3filter. If i get an external USB soundcard will it support SPDIF through the laptop's HDMI? 
And what is SPDIF output through HDMI? I thought SPDIF could be output only from SPDIF.. It really got me confused.. I need to set SPDIF output in AC3filter in order to pass AC3 through HDMI.. 

 

If you hook up a USB soundcard then the sound goes into that soundcard, it's not going to go back into the mobo then out the HDMI. Best you can do is use a USB soundcard with optical output like the Xonar U3, but the problem is your receiver uses coax for HDMI if I remember correctly. 

Again, welcome to HT, where everything is always outdated by next year. That's why for the longest time the receivers came with crappy amps - the processor section will be outdated soon enough anyway. What makes me wonder about all that is why they didn't just make them all output analog preamped signals and then sold real poweramps - that's precisely why Emotiva is such a hit. You can get a pre-pro for around $500 and a 5ch power amp for $500; then you only upgrade the pre-pro every few years. Compare that to the mainstream brands - at best they'd sell you a receiver with all channels of analog output but for around $800+.