[]eep]

Sorry, but that is total nonsense.
There are many Audio companies out there making very good money. HiFi is most certainly a business where you can make money, and a lot of it as well, if you are good at what you are doing. There are also audio companies that struggle, no doubt about that, but that's how it is in all industries, isn't it

I think you don't really understand the difference between earning money and getting rich. If you set up a business and you are doing it right, I think you deserve to be paid. But that is not the same as getting rich. If you want to get rich, stop working for a living and start manipulating the (stock) market, start manipulating money.

I don't understand how people het upset about $1000 cables when they pay through the nose, per month, for their healthcare plan that actually kills people in the millions, or give away billions out of your pay for a war in a place nobody can even point out on a map. Get some perspective.

Ask Philips why they quit hifi. They only continued the medical business as this equipment is payed through insurance deals and carries even higher quality demands and even higher pricetags. All enthousiasts that start a small business in hifi do it out of passion, not for money. If you are talented and want to gain power, join the old boys club in your ivy league campus and sell your soul.

HiFi is a hobby. Like becoming a doctor or nurse is a calling. Yes, a doctor earns good money too. Nurses don't. But if you want to become filthy rich as a doctor, join big pharma and put your conscience in the freezer at -300°C. Same for banking or military industry.

 

[Thomasr]

So I found an ancient Sony CDP-790 at my local thrift shop today. It has optical out and everything. This store has a no-returns policy, but they do allow/encourage people to test electronics before buying.

I popped back home and grabbed a CD and some headphones. The unit powered up fine and the CD tray works, but the headphone jack was some kind of bizarre proprietary connector (back in the day, I always hated Sony for their insistence on breaking standards) so I couldn't verify that the unit is capable of turning electricity into rotation into 1's and 0's into sound.

Hard pass. Maybe I'll take the advice offered by a couple of folks on this thread and rip a few CDs lossless and see how those files sound compared to Deezer.

 

[medon]

So I found an ancient Sony CDP-790 at my local thrift shop today. It has optical out....

.... with all the disagreements on HiFi truths, there seems to be one agreeable thing: TOSlink / optical SPDIF is the worst option to transmit digital audio.
So -- no loss, by letting this occasion pass.

 

[George Hincapie]

Sorry, but this is total nonsense. What do you even mean by 'audiophile'? You're using it almost as a curseword. If you want to get rich, here's my advice: don't start an audio company and don't buy one either. You'll only loose money. It really is a hobby for a niche community.

I'm not saying there aren't bad players trying to fleece the gullible suckers they think 'audiophiles' are. But high end wares are made for rich people. They don't care much about price. They get their girlfriends a $10k handbag to keep them happy. A handbag to hold their compact, lipstick and tampons. It doesn't make music.

Can we please stop this petty argument. If you have to ask you can't afford it. But if you're smart you can do it yourself for a whole lot less. That's why they say knowledge is power.

I still have a cd-player with a broken drive that I modified. It's dac is still awesome. But I don't have the will to go and fix or swap the optical drive. That MHZS has a long history. Cheap but built like a tank. And after 10 years the drive just quit. I'm done with cd-players.

No. It's the truth. I feel sad for you if you can't grasp it.

 

[megabigeye]

.... with all the disagreements on HiFi truths, there seems to be one agreeable thing: TOSlink / optical SPDIF is the worst option to transmit digital audio.
So -- no loss, by letting this occasion pass.

I disagree!

 

[joeling]

In my system, CD still trumps streaming or file as source for now. I really want streaming to win but sadly, still not quite there yet. So, please do buy a decent CD player or transport to hook up with your DAC to play your CDs. If you want to improve CD playback even further, a dejitter device will make an audible difference in many cases. Digital is about timing. The more accurate the timing, the better music sounds.

 

[medon]

I disagree!

 

[Lindholdt]

I think you don't really understand the difference between earning money and getting rich. If you set up a business and you are doing it right, I think you deserve to be paid. But that is not the same as getting rich. If you want to get rich, stop working for a living and start manipulating the (stock) market, start manipulating money.

I do understand, but I think you are vastly underestimating how big of an industry Audio is. I work in the business, HiFi to be specific, and I know first hand of quite a few HiFi companies, just in Denmark, where a lot of money is made, enough to make the owners quite rich.

 

[medon]

I do understand, but I think you are vastly underestimating how big of an industry Audio is. I work in the business, HiFi to be specific, and I know first hand of quite a few HiFi companies, just in Denmark, where a lot of money is made, enough to make the owners quite rich.

... for me it is especially fascinating that so many (successful) audio companies have their homes in Denmark and other Scandinavian countries.
Sure there's a lot of other companies in Europe, mostly UK, France, some others... but for countries of not so huge population like Scandinavian ones the density of thriving audio companies seems way above average.

 

[]eep]

I do understand, but I think you are vastly underestimating how big of an industry Audio is. I work in the business, HiFi to be specific, and I know first hand of quite a few HiFi companies, just in Denmark, where a lot of money is made, enough to make the owners quite rich.

I think that only proves it differs per country. Danmark is different from Netherlands. I only notice shops going out of business. I think most people have a certain perspective of what rich means. You think someone gets rich of selling a 100 $2000 cd-players? Or even a 1000 $5000? Try setting up a factory (I have) and see what costs you have to pay. And as you must certainly know, since you work in the business, every part has to be sold for at least double the price. Without markup you can't sustain. And any part you use gets 5x markup by the time it's sold to the customer. Just look at the parts quality of crossovers in speakers. Anything that isn't 'expensive' has crap $0.50 parts inside because a proper $10 part would increase the selling price by $100 a pair. Then compete with a mass produced soundbar and see how many you sell.

If I compare the older MHZS cd-player I bought from China and I look at the casing, just the case alone would cost me €300. And the only thing that is effective against airborne vibration is mass. I remember paying $300 for it including P&P. It would have cost 10x that if it were a western brand. In fact, I remember Mark Levinson re-entering the market with his Red Rose brand, all rebadged Chinese components from Dussun and Aurum Cantus, no alterations, getting rave reviews, selling for 10x the price. The market took care of that after it came out I suppose. Now the guy Mark Levinson has a new company. Again. He must be rich. Poor guy with his famous wifey.

The only way for audio cd-players to be of good quality and low price is a large demand and competition. There is neither of both but since a few years demand is picking up and competition is increasing. The old stock is running out and sturdy laser units are being re-invented. That takes time and money, but I'm sure things will get better. Not like vinyl, but better than it was. And look at the price of vinyl. Now there's something to complain about.

 

[dacwizard]

.... with all the disagreements on HiFi truths, there seems to be one agreeable thing: TOSlink / optical SPDIF is the worst option to transmit digital audio.
So -- no loss, by letting this occasion pass.

Untrue….certainly in the way you have presented it.

Just spend a bit of time on Audio Science Review and look through some of their many hundred dac reviews. You will see that the TOSLINk tests are frequently equivalent to the coax or USB tests, and even if worse it’s usually at such a low (transparent) level as to be completely negligible. What is proven is that TOSLink can deliver digital data with a far greater SNR that almost any amplifier can match not to mention speakers or headphones, and if implemented correctly it need not be any worse than Coax or USB.

in addition TOSlink guarantees electrical isolation, something that many on this board pay many hundreds+ to try and achieve over Ethernet or USB.

 

[medon]

Untrue….certainly in the way you have presented it.

Just spend a bit of time on Audio Science Review and look through some of their many hundred dac reviews. You will see that the TOSLINk tests are frequently equivalent to the coax or USB tests, and even if worse it’s usually at such a low (transparent) level as to be completely negligible. What is proven is that TOSLink can deliver digital data with a far greater SNR that almost any amplifier can match not to mention speakers or headphones, and if implemented correctly it need not be any worse than Coax or USB.

in addition TOSlink guarantees electrical isolation, something that many on this board pay many hundreds+ to try and achieve over Ethernet or USB.

I see no contradiction in our statements...
Anyway, as always I would always try out all different possibilities when new gear arrives. That would include TOSlink as well. Only so far, direct electrical connections have been superior with everything I personally tried.

 

[medon]

...I only notice shops going out of business.....

Here in Germany there seems to be some continuity in HiFi commerce. New dedicated HiFi / 2 channel stereo shops are being opened, quite busy. So far, so good! And I'm talking brick&mortar stores, of course.

You think someone gets rich of selling a 100 $2000 cd-players? Or even a 1000 $5000? ...

No, and why should he/she? 200k USD turnover can make one single person hardly "rich", unless he had almost no spendings. With 5 Mio... well. Might be worth a try!

 

[LanceSaintPaul]

So I found an ancient Sony CDP-790 at my local thrift shop today. It has optical out and everything. This store has a no-returns policy, but they do allow/encourage people to test electronics before buying.

I popped back home and grabbed a CD and some headphones. The unit powered up fine and the CD tray works, but the headphone jack was some kind of bizarre proprietary connector (back in the day, I always hated Sony for their insistence on breaking standards) so I couldn't verify that the unit is capable of turning electricity into rotation into 1's and 0's into sound.

If that is the connector I am thinking of a 3.5 mm jack but with a tab on the side (this was for remote functions). If so you can still put a normal 3.5 mm headphone jack into the round hole & it will work. If that is not the jack on the player you saw, then nevermind.

 

[Lindholdt]

I think that only proves it differs per country. Danmark is different from Netherlands. I only notice shops going out of business. I think most people have a certain perspective of what rich means. You think someone gets rich of selling a 100 $2000 cd-players? Or even a 1000 $5000? Try setting up a factory (I have) and see what costs you have to pay. And as you must certainly know, since you work in the business, every part has to be sold for at least double the price. Without markup you can't sustain. And any part you use gets 5x markup by the time it's sold to the customer. Just look at the parts quality of crossovers in speakers. Anything that isn't 'expensive' has crap $0.50 parts inside because a proper $10 part would increase the selling price by $100 a pair. Then compete with a mass produced soundbar and see how many you sell.

I don't think Denmark is anything special in this regard.
But I'm not talking about B&M shops, if you have one of those, without a very good online shop ad well, then yes, it's not going to be very profitable.
Same goes if you have to build a factory.
But there is certainly a middle road, with lots of room for good markups.
If your product ends up with a x5 markup before it's in the customers hands, you are doing it wrong, IMO. That's way too much, and if that's the mindset of those who run the businesses, I fully understand why they struggle.
Direct sales, B2C is the way to go, it leaves room for good margins for the company while also providing a great price for the customer.