[J@CKY]

Hi all, I am a newbie in computer audio.
 
I am not sure how important the computer's sound card would be when using computer as audio source.
 
For example, considering two computers, "Computer A" is using an on-board sound card with SPDIF digital out (Coaxial and TOSLINK); while "Computer B" is using a very high end sound card with SPDIF digital output as well.
 
If both computers, using the same software configuration, same source file (say 24-bit/96kHz WAV), and same output interface (say TOSLINK) connecting to same DAC, will both system get the same sound quality output?  
 
My understanding to this question would be YES.  To me, SPDIF/TOSLINK interface output digital signal, if the file and software is the same 1010 binary, theoretically Computer A and B should producing identical output as there's no data conversion happening.  In that case the decisive factor of sound quality should lie with the DAC.  
 
Well, I believe I was wrong on this but I am not sure what I missed.  It would be great if someone point me to the right direct and give me more explanations.
 
Thanks
Jack

 

[Mochan]

Theoretically, you are correct. But I have not tested, and have no documents to prove it. 

 

[Happy Camper]

I like the question.

 

[J@CKY]

Thanks,
 
I asked this because I came across some blogs and articles mentioning people are extremely cautious in DIY-ing their computer audio system using low electric consumption hardware, laptop chipset, mod the computer PSU and replace caps on the mother board to give better quality power source and thus best possible sound from their computer.  But they eventually hook the computer to DAC (through digital input), not an amp.  So I just do not understand, if I am theoretically correct on this, what's the point for all these hassle to custom made such a computer?  Any relative advance on-board sound card could have SPDIF output (at least mine has both coaxial and optical out).  

 

[Happy Camper]

You don't want to use your computer as an audio device, you want to use it for a storage device.

 

[Head Injury]

Quote:

Thanks,
 
I asked this because I came across some blogs and articles mentioning people are extremely cautious in DIY-ing their computer audio system using low electric consumption hardware, laptop chipset, mod the computer PSU and replace caps on the mother board to give better quality power source and thus best possible sound from their computer.  But they eventually hook the computer to DAC (through digital input), not an amp.  So I just do not understand, if I am theoretically correct on this, what's the point for all these hassle to custom made such a computer?  Any relative advance on-board sound card could have SPDIF output (at least mine has both coaxial and optical out).  

Measures to reduce EMI and provide clean power would make sense if using an internal sound card. I don't see why it would matter through S/PDIF, either. It could reduce jitter maybe, but it's arguable how audible jitter is to begin with, and high quality DACs will reclock the signal anyway.
 
ASUS cards allow output of some Dolby effects through S/PDIF, but that would be the only reason to get one if you're using an outboard DAC anyway.
 
I think in the end a lot of audiophiles feel threatened by the convenience of computers, which can store racks of CDs in lossless on a disk the size of a portable amp. So they blow the effects of jitter, EMI, and other computer related issues way out of proportion to feel comfortable in their old technology. It's one of the reasons so many still stick with vinyl and criticize the "negative" impact of digital in general.

 

[evanft]

Quote:

Measures to reduce EMI and provide clean power would make sense if using an internal sound card. I don't see why it would matter through S/PDIF, either. It could reduce jitter maybe, but it's arguable how audible jitter is to begin with, and high quality DACs will reclock the signal anyway.
 
ASUS cards allow output of some Dolby effects through S/PDIF, but that would be the only reason to get one if you're using an outboard DAC anyway.
 
I think in the end a lot of audiophiles feel threatened by the convenience of computers, which can store racks of CDs in lossless on a disk the size of a portable amp. So they blow the effects of jitter, EMI, and other computer related issues way out of proportion to feel comfortable in their old technology. It's one of the reasons so many still stick with vinyl and criticize the "negative" impact of digital in general.

THANK YOU.
 
This is exactly what I've been thinking as I read all the nonsense concerning computer systems on audiophile blogs and forums.

 

[J@CKY]

Quote:

Measures to reduce EMI and provide clean power would make sense if using an internal sound card. I don't see why it would matter through S/PDIF, either. It could reduce jitter maybe, but it's arguable how audible jitter is to begin with, and high quality DACs will reclock the signal anyway.
 
ASUS cards allow output of some Dolby effects through S/PDIF, but that would be the only reason to get one if you're using an outboard DAC anyway.
 
I think in the end a lot of audiophiles feel threatened by the convenience of computers, which can store racks of CDs in lossless on a disk the size of a portable amp. So they blow the effects of jitter, EMI, and other computer related issues way out of proportion to feel comfortable in their old technology. It's one of the reasons so many still stick with vinyl and criticize the "negative" impact of digital in general.

Thanks.
 
Also, my on-board sound card provide both coaxial and TOS-link S/PDIF out.  Does that mean it support 24-bit/192kHz digital output?  If not, how could I check what is supported?  Well, I have the option to select such output, does that made the digital output capable of Hi-Res output?
 
Also, it only has 1x cox + 1x Toslink.  But seems like the dialog box below has both digital input and output (right bottom corner).  Is it possible to have the same plug for both input and output functionality?  (Anyone know what is the option at the bottom? "S/PDIF-In to S/PDIF-Out pass through mode." I couldn't quite get what it is even there are some explanation down there)
 
 

 
 
 

 

[Head Injury]

Quote:

Thanks.
 
Also, my on-board sound card provide both coaxial and TOS-link S/PDIF out.  Does that mean it support 24-bit/192kHz digital output?  If not, how could I check what is supported?  Well, I have the option to select such output, does that made the digital output capable of Hi-Res output?
 
Also, it only has 1x cox + 1x Toslink.  But seems like the dialog box below has both digital input and output (right bottom corner).  Is it possible to have the same plug for both input and output functionality?  (Anyone know what is the option at the bottom? "S/PDIF-In to S/PDIF-Out pass through mode." I couldn't quite get what it is even there are some explanation down there)
 
 

It probably supports 24/192, but it wont't matter much anyway because very little will actually use 24/192 and according to a few DAC manufacturers (Benchmark among them) a true 24/192 signal isn't ideal because it causes more problems than 24/96. Check your motherboard manufacturer's website for any documentation. My P55-GD65 can do 24/192.
 
Realtek HD Audio Manager doesn't tailor fit its interface for your motherboard. It uses the same one for every motherboard that uses it. I wouldn't expect the same jack can be used for both input and output. It's probably just output, unless your motherboard was made specifically for audio applications. My P55-GD65 only has optical/coaxial out. Unfortunately I already uninstalled my Realtek drivers so I can't check if I have a digital in on the interface. Again, check your manufacturer's documentation to see if it can do digital input. 
 
The checkbox seems to mean that the drivers will output through S/PDIF any signal that is inputted through S/PDIF and bypasses anything your programs try to send. It would probably apply any sound effects you enable, if those can be passed through digitally.

 

[umvue]

What does a high end sound card do? Isn't it like a DAC+amp? Or I am mistaken???

 

[Head Injury]

Quote:

What does a high end sound card do? Isn't it like a DAC+amp? Or I am mistaken???

Yes. Most are designed as DACs and audio processors for games, with enough power to drive low impedance headphones but little else. Some, like a couple in ASUS's line, have more powerful amps built in and are designed for music listening with some gaming.

 

[umvue]

So why would the OP want to put an external DAC on top of the sound card???

 

[nsk1]

It will be all about the jitter, but to be honest it won't be financially good solution. Better buy some converter.

 

[CatboyMac]

I'm going to get an HT | Omega Claro Halo, and kill all of my birds with one stone. (DAC/Amp/Soundcard/etc.)

 

[J@CKY]

Again, in the same nutshell, I cannot quite get it why there are such a big difference in price for external "USB in -> S/PDIF out" converters.
 
e.g. V-LINK which could cost as much as £90 and M2Tech's hiFACE could cost more than £120.  But a very basic, brand-less, USB to SPDIF converter only cost as little as £30 (or less). (click) 
 
I mean theoretically, the cheaper one should have no difference than the dearer converter if I am only interested in converting digital data from USB to another digital data in S/PDIF interface, and connect to the same DAC and AMPs, right?  
 
So expect for less jitters, what else is the extra money justifying for?  Is it the "Native" support of 24/96k or even 24/192k that push up the price tag?  Or is there something else I have missed?
 
Also, I try to find out whether my on-board sound card is "natively" support 24/96 or higher digital output without using upsampling.  I couldn't find it in the user manual of my Motherboard.  What other method do I have?
 
Thanks.