Comparisons of the Liquid Lightning and KGSSHV Solid State Stax Amplifiers

[En_R]

Did you have the LL1 in your home for several weeks along side a much superior KGSSHV? I did direct A-B comparisons in my the quiet of my listening room, with my sources and my music. And my comments stand. Sorry....the bass does "seem" to cut off at 80Hz in comparison to other amps I've tried. The KGSSHV is spectacular with the SR-009s and as I mentioned fires on all cylinders....great bass, mids, treble, imaging, transparency, etc...(you name it).

I did.

I also had a BHSE in the house at the time. I owned all three amps for a couple of months (along with a SRM-323S. Lul.)

I also had two 009's. Which I plugged into two different amps at the time, driven from the same source, to A/B test. I did the same thing with a couple headphones/amps/sources.. I thought about publishing something but I'm too lazy. @France

I preferred the LL(v1) for the 009 at the time, and the BHSE for the 007s. The LL had a warm coloring that sounded much more musical with the 009s, especially the midrange. The BHSE was way too bright and brittle sounding albeit it had amazing transparency and detail. The KGSSHV (compared to the LLv1) did better than the LL with most of the technicalities. Very nice bass, as you said, but it just sounded.. bland. I used it as a bedside rig for when I couldn't sleep, worked wonders.

It was the same deal with the 007s... in fact the KGSSHV + 007 was my very first headphone rig (very hypnotic... this put me to sleep twice as fast as the 009 pairing), and not even a warm source like the Cantata could save that pairing... but the BHSE makes the 007 sound magical so all is well.

Oh yeah these are all in relative terms, the differences between the KGSSHV and the LL were not night and day. It was enough to get me over in blind tests though, so that says something.

Btw I'm pretty sure the build quality and the components my KGSSHV had tops anything build I've seen... ever. Cost a pretty nickel too (right MH? ) Not sure if
this means anything... but food for thought.

I was waiting for Eric to throw his wrench in the works but it seems like he's holding off for now.

This may be just adding oil on the fire but the recent blind test performed in France did highlight that all bets are off when you leave expectations / preconceptions and other placebo effects aside.

......

Not at all. My opinion is that the results of those blind tests are pretty much useless, as they stated they have spent quite a long period of time with the RKV + wee combo to develop a memory of it's sound signature, and to develop bias....before testing. A real blind test would be to test people who have never heard any of those amps (ever).

Even then blind tests do particularly little in the world of audio, as I have found out.. way too many variables. Also you need very good ears, memory, and a lot of experience doing analytical listening with different types of gear for noticeable results.... but some would say such a well trained test subject is proned to bias--- anyways its something someone with time on their hands could look into.

 

[tyre]

Regarding the public posting of schematics:
 
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/headphone-systems/229934-version-o2-desktop-amp-oda-11.html#post3506094
 
Quote:jcx

  copyright only protects an exact copy of an expression - not the ideas/technology - only active, valid patents can in principle protect published circuits from being reused/reimplemented by others
 
even for a schematic copyright - only the exact, particular drawing can be subject to copyright - anyone can fire up their own favorite schematic entry tool and re-enter the exact same circuit - and freely publish it - protect their own drawing of it under copyright - but the topology, circuit ideas, methods, implementation, parts choices are not copyright-able
 
likewise copyright can protect the exact grahics image of a particular PCB layout of a circuit, or the Gerbers, even the PCB itself is considered an copyrigh-able graphic work - but anyone can redo the layout without facing restriction from copyright

 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/611348/help-needed-to-upgrade-the-capacitor-in-otl-tube-amp/15#post_8417041
 
Quote:jcx

  in the US at least, for any commercially sold product, absent binding contract secrecy terms - anything you can determine by any level of inspection, reverse engineering, is considered fair game - equivalent to being published
 
the only restriction is that you cannot publish a copyright protected exact "mechanical" copy of the manufacturer's user, service manual drawing without permission - if you derive it yourself, hand draw or enter in your own schematic software is it yours to publish freely

 
http://www.muzique.com/clones.htm
 

  A "copyright" is the exclusive right to copy. Copyrights grant an artist control over how his work can be exploited. A copyrighted work can be a literary work, musical work, dramatic work, pantomime, choreographic work, pictorial work, graphic work, sculptural work, motion picture, audiovisual work, sound recording, architectural work, mask works fixed in semiconductor chip products, or a computer program. A circuit schematic is a graphic work.
 
Facts, ideas, procedures, processes, systems, methods of operation, concepts, principles or discoveries cannot themselves be copyrighted.
 
Since we are discussing cloning of effect boxes in this article, I'll limit the discussion of copyrights to that area. A schematic drawing can be copyrighted... the copyright then protects the drawing (schematic) from other people displaying, selling, distributing, copying or making derivatives of it without your permission. It provides no protection whatsoever for the circuit depicted therein - anyone can take the schematic, build a box from it and sell it without violating the copyright on the schematic.

 

[perrew]

It was the same deal with the 007s... in fact the KGSSHV + 007 was my very first headphone rig (very hypnotic... this put me to sleep twice as fast as the 009 pairing), and not even a warm source like the Cantata could save that pairing... but the BHSE makes the 007 sound magical so all is well.

 

 
By this I take it that you find a huge difference in sound between the HV and BHSE (all with the SR-007Mk1s) ? I thought they were sort of similar circuitwise but the BHSE having tubes it might be slightly more linear than the KGSSHV? Sorry Im not familiar with the Cantata but was it used as a CD-player?
Tks P

 

[DefQon]

The Cantanta is a DAC.

 

[palchiu]

  The Cantanta is a DAC.

 
Cnatata is a music center, it has cd driver.

 

[DefQon]

   
Cnatata is a music center, it has cd driver.

 
Oh true, didn't see that. 

 

[joyway]

   
Cnatata is a music center, it has cd driver.

 
Hi, Teacher Tit

 

[Ali-Pacha]

Check.

Ali

 

[David1961]

When myself and Head-fier IanG heard my BHSE and his LL at my place, my K-01 was used with both amps at the same time, (both amps hadn't been warmed up though ) and even though it was about 17 months ago, I still remember that both amps SQ wise were on par with each other, that was also with my 009's and Ian's 007mk1's.
I do believe that the K-01 was a lot to do with that, those that doubt what I'm saying should listen to the top stats amps with the K-01 as source, then post your findings.

 

[Mr.Sneis]

I don't carry near as much weight as any of the members contributing in this thread, but in my limited time with the LLmk2, the o2mk1,mk2, and 009 I felt it was a very competent performer and did not notice bass deficiencies as described in this thread.  Then again I was unable to a/b an HV and the LLmk2 let alone a BHSE - so relatively speaking it could still be possible.  At the end of my time I would absolutely have picked the LLmk2 over a SRM-717 price notwithstanding. 
 
I know Cavalli put some work into improving the mk1 into the mk2 design resulting in worthwhile changes and that it seemed there may have been some unique differences even between the mk1's he sold~ if only it were easier/more affordable to test these top end amps.

 

[David1961]

Does anyone know what the time difference is between the LLmk1 coming out and the LLmk2. To me it doesn't seem that long and if that's true, why ?

 

[Mr.Sneis]

seems like the mk1 was almost a one off type product compared to mk2 more like a commercial release

 

[En_R]

Does anyone know what the time difference is between the LLmk1 coming out and the LLmk2. To me it doesn't seem that long and if that's true, why ?

 
About a year, give or take a few months.

 

[JMcMasterJ]

  I don't carry near as much weight as any of the members contributing in this thread, but in my limited time with the LLmk2, the o2mk1,mk2, and 009 I felt it was a very competent performer and did not notice bass deficiencies as described in this thread.  Then again I was unable to a/b an HV and the LLmk2 let alone a BHSE - so relatively speaking it could still be possible.  At the end of my time I would absolutely have picked the LLmk2 over a SRM-717 price notwithstanding. 
 
I know Cavalli put some work into improving the mk1 into the mk2 design resulting in worthwhile changes and that it seemed there may have been some unique differences even between the mk1's he sold~ if only it were easier/more affordable to test these top end amps.

 
I agree. I also own the 007mk1 and 717 and am currently auditioning the LL2, which is I feel is a huge improvement over the 717. I've previously heard all of the top electrostatic amps, but the LL2 would be my first choice now if I could afford it. I also really like the new design.

 

[Mr.Sneis]

Nice, is that the LLmk2 floating around for the loaner program?  I was one of the first to get to hear it but then the thread kind of died.  Be sure to let us know if you hear any bass deficiency --  By inference the 717 should be relatively close to a regular kgss in performance - maybe tilted a little darker.