comparing onboard to other DACs?
May 29, 2012 at 11:36 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 19

ihatelolcats

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hello,
my motherboard has
SupremeFX X-Fi 2 built-in 8-Channel High Definition Audio CODEC
- Supports : Jack-detection, Multi-streaming, Front Panel Jack-retasking
Audio Feature :
- X-Fi® Xtreme Fidelity™
- EAX® Advanced™ HD 5.0
- THX® TruStudio PRO™
- Creative ALchemy
- Blu-ray audio layer Content Protection
- Optical S/PDIF out port(s) at back panel

how do i compare DACs? with headphones and amps there are concrete numbers to look at. but i'm lost here
i looked at DIY stuff like bantamDAC which is interesting but i have no idea if it is better or worse than what i have

thanks
 
May 30, 2012 at 12:14 AM Post #2 of 19
Quote:
my motherboard has
SupremeFX X-Fi 2 built-in 8-Channel High Definition Audio CODEC
- Supports : Jack-detection, Multi-streaming, Front Panel Jack-retasking
Audio Feature :
- X-Fi® Xtreme Fidelity™
- EAX® Advanced™ HD 5.0
- THX® TruStudio PRO™
- Creative ALchemy
- Blu-ray audio layer Content Protection
- Optical S/PDIF out port(s) at back panel
how do i compare DACs? with headphones and amps there are concrete numbers to look at. but I'm lost here
I looked at DIY stuff like bantamDAC which is interesting but i have no idea if it is better or worse than what i have

Usually the DAC built into a motherboard is picked for it's low price.
Chances are any new add-on sound card will come with a better DAC then what a motherboard comes with.
Some external add-on DACs can be even better.
 
Sounded like your motherboard's audio is using Creative Labs software (may or may not be Creative Lab's hardware).
 
If you add a DAC anywhere, it will bypass your motherboard's built in audio (hardware & software).
 
May 30, 2012 at 1:31 AM Post #4 of 19
Chances are that any DYI DAC kit that cost $30 (parts wise) or more is going to have a better DAC then your motherboard.
 
May 30, 2012 at 12:05 PM Post #6 of 19
Motherboard manufacturer will not tell what DAC is built into the motherboard, so it's only a guess.
The Bantam DAC kit comes with a PCM2702 DAC, which I'm sure is better then what is built into your motherboard.
The DD (DAC Destroyer) USB DAC, comes with a PCM2704 DAC, which is a nice sounding DAC, I own one.
You can get one off eBay for around $50.
 
May 30, 2012 at 3:22 PM Post #7 of 19
how important is having balanced output?

i found this on ebay which has PCM2704 DAC
i wonder where it lacks, it's so cheap something has to be undesirable with it
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MINI-PCM2704-HI-FI-USB-DAC-SOUND-CARD-BOARD-hi-fi-ELNA-Capacitance-for-it-/260994381452?pt=PCC_Drives_Storage_Internal&hash=item3cc47a368c
 
Jun 1, 2012 at 2:10 AM Post #8 of 19
If you add a DAC anywhere, it will bypass your motherboard's built in audio (hardware & software).


Not true. If you add a DAC it will bypass the DtoA on the motherboard, but the motherboard's built-in controller will still be your primary interface and handle everything but the final analog output. If this X-Fi implementation gets the new-ish drivers, it will let you pass all of the processing out via S/PDIF (OP: in the X-Fi control panel, is there an option like "Pass Stereo Mix to Digital Out"?). If you add a USB, FireWire, or PCIe controller you will be replacing the built-in controller with whatever that device brings to the table.


how important is having balanced output?
i found this on ebay which has PCM2704 DAC
i wonder where it lacks, it's so cheap something has to be undesirable with it
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MINI-PCM2704-HI-FI-USB-DAC-SOUND-CARD-BOARD-hi-fi-ELNA-Capacitance-for-it-/260994381452?pt=PCC_Drives_Storage_Internal&hash=item3cc47a368c


Do you have a source that accepts a balanced input?

Balanced outputs (or XLR outputs that are marketed as balanced outputs) are generally better at noise rejection and driving longer runs of cable, especially in noisy environments. They make lots of sense in studios (even project studios) and live applications, but for most home users it's just extra expense that you shouldn't worry about until the rest of your equipment needs it (in other words, at the very high end, XLR connections make a lot of sense, but if you don't have equipment that can take advantage of it, don't worry about it - SE is perfectly fine).

Honestly the onboard DtoA on your mainboard is probably fairly high quality - the bestest DACs in the world only cost a few dollars a piece as raw parts, and companies like Asus buy in quantities of millions; they get discounts. Your board looks like it has an 8-channel solution, which aren't known for being "the best" (they usually don't spec/measure as good as monotonic or stereo D/A converters), but they can be perfectly hi-fi. If your mainboard has no audible hum/buzz/etc from the analog outputs, I'd worry about downstream components more - amplifiers and headphones. Once you get that dealt with, then worry about a DtoA converter or a new audio interface (unless you're going to kill two birds with one stone, and get a DAC/amp or controller/amp combo unit).

If you want to add something, you can either get a DAC (which will accept S/PDIF or AES or something like that), or a new controller (which will use USB, FireWire, or PCI/PCI Express and replace what's built-in to your mainboard). A lot of these devices include headphone amplifiers and some include a lot of additional features, so depending on your needs, it might make sense. If you just need output though, and the integrated isn't bleeding out noise, you're very likely A-OK with what you have.

The trade-off with that eBay device is that you get (max) 16/48 stereo audio and nothing else, and lose all audio control panels associated with the X-Fi or another full-fledged interface. You can replace this functionality in individual applications, for example Foobar has an EQ, but it won't be global (in other words, if you have an EQ you like in Foobar, it only works in Foobar; you don't get it in games). It's a very simple device.
 
Jun 1, 2012 at 2:30 AM Post #9 of 19
Quote:
Usually the DAC built into a motherboard is picked for it's low price.
Chances are any new add-on sound card will come with a better DAC then what a motherboard comes with.
Some external add-on DACs can be even better.
 
Sounded like your motherboard's audio is using Creative Labs software (may or may not be Creative Lab's hardware).
 
If you add a USB DAC anywhere, it will bypass your motherboard's built in Creative audio (hardware & software).

 
Jun 1, 2012 at 2:33 AM Post #10 of 19
Quote:
Not true. If you add a DAC it will bypass the DtoA on the motherboard, but the motherboard's built-in controller will still be your primary interface and handle everything but the final analog output. If this X-Fi implementation gets the new-ish drivers, it will let you pass all of the processing out via S/PDIF (OP: in the X-Fi control panel, is there an option like "Pass Stereo Mix to Digital Out"?). If you add a USB, FireWire, or PCIe controller you will be replacing the built-in controller with whatever that device brings to the table.

Guess i should have said a USB DAC will bypass the built in Creative hardware.
But his motherboard may use an included add-on sound card, not a built-in.
 
Jun 1, 2012 at 4:26 AM Post #12 of 19
If you have SupremeFX III (FXII have ALC889) it should have best & newest Realtek chip ALC898, SNR 110db & if I read right it has little headphone amp/s.. DATASHEET ALC898
 
Parameter Min Typical Max Units
Full Scale Input Voltage
All Inputs (gain=0dB) to ADC - 1.45 - Vrms
Full Scale Output Voltage (gain=0dB)
DAC - 1.2 - Vrms
Headphone Amplifier Output@32Ω Load - 1.1 - Vrms
Dynamic Range with –60dB signal (A-Weight)
ADC - 104 - dB FSA
DAC - 110 - dB FSA
Headphone Amplifier Output@32Ω Load - 108 - dB FSA
THD+N
ADC - -86 - dB FS
DAC - -92 - dB FS
Headphone Amplifier Output@32Ω Load - -88 - dB FS

 
I try to compare it to Realtek ALC892, Xonar DG and X-FI HD USB.. Maybe RMAA tests and some subjective listening like hissing, popping etc..
 
Jun 1, 2012 at 6:12 AM Post #13 of 19
the supremeFX is not that bad, on pair with the newest realtek chipsets.
You should look into >100$ cards or external DACs to have a sensible improvement.
 

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