Comparing Hifiman Sundara vs. Meze 99 classics

[Jetsjam]

I’m just wondering what I’m missing with the Sundara’s I just bought. I already own a pair of Meze 99 Classics, and wanted to get a decent pair of open backed headphones, so after doing research, chose the Sundaras. Maybe it’s because I’m still so new to the hobby and I don’t know how to appreciate the nuances of open backed headphones, but I’m thoroughly underwhelmed by the Sundara’s compared to the Mezes. Is it not a good idea to compare open backs to closed backs? I was aware the Sundara’s would have less bass but a wider soundstage and imaging and was prepared for that. Plus the Sundaras have a far lower volume limit. So I’m just a little disappointed in my purchase.

Any advice or comments are appreciated!

 

[msing539]

I’m just wondering what I’m missing with the Sundara’s I just bought. I already own a pair of Meze 99 Classics, and wanted to get a decent pair of open backed headphones, so after doing research, chose the Sundaras. Maybe it’s because I’m still so new to the hobby and I don’t know how to appreciate the nuances of open backed headphones, but I’m thoroughly underwhelmed by the Sundara’s compared to the Mezes. Is it not a good idea to compare open backs to closed backs? I was aware the Sundara’s would have less bass but a wider soundstage and imaging and was prepared for that. Plus the Sundaras have a far lower volume limit. So I’m just a little disappointed in my purchase.

Any advice or comments are appreciated!

How are you driving the Sundara?

 

[Jetsjam]

How are you driving the Sundara?

 

[Jetsjam]

I’m using the Creative Sound Blasterx G6 external sound card, and use a Wiim pro audio streamer.

 

[gimmeheadroom]

I haven't heard either one. But often, the reason people like closed headphones is because of the slam, the feeling of air pressure from bass notes. This is just a matter of physics that is difficult to overcome in an open design. In a closed set, the air control is much easier and that leads to an increase in the sense of bass. It does not mean the bass is better quality but it does mean it will be more impactful.

In an open set the emphasis is often on smoothness and a natural sound presentation.

Sundara sensitivity i.e. how loud it gets with input power of 1mW is 94 dB, which is relatively low so it needs a fair amount of power even with the low impedance of 32 ohms. I don't see any specs on the Soundblaster product page, just claims of what impedance loads it will work for. In almost all cases, those claims are worthless and the fact they don't give real specs of power @ load and distortion figures, I guess the main problem is lack of sufficient power.

Your Meze 99s have the same load impedance, but they are much more efficient at 103 dB, so need magnitudes less power than the Sundaras to get the same volume. It seems certain you are not hearing what the Sundaras are capable of. For that you need a better headphone amplifier.

It could be you prefer an impactful sound and therefore should look for another closed pair if you want to upgrade. You didn't mention your musical preferences.

 

[msing539]

This is exactly what I was thinking. When I owned the Sundara, I tried it on the Magni and THX789, and it was noticeably better on the latter.

 

[Jetsjam]

I haven't heard either one. But often, the reason people like closed headphones is because of the slam, the feeling of air pressure from bass notes. This is just a matter of physics that is difficult to overcome in an open design. In a closed set, the air control is much easier and that leads to an increase in the sense of bass. It does not mean the bass is better quality but it does mean it will be more impactful.

In an open set the emphasis is often on smoothness and a natural sound presentation.

Sundara sensitivity i.e. how loud it gets with input power of 1mW is 94 dB, which is relatively low so it needs a fair amount of power even with the low impedance of 32 ohms. I don't see any specs on the Soundblaster product page, just claims of what impedance loads it will work for. In almost all cases, those claims are worthless and the fact they don't give real specs of power @ load and distortion figures, I guess the main problem is lack of sufficient power.

Your Meze 99s have the same load impedance, but they are much more efficient at 103 dB, so need magnitudes less power than the Sundaras to get the same volume. It seems certain you are not hearing what the Sundaras are capable of. For that you need a better headphone amplifier.

It could be you prefer an impactful sound and therefore should look for another closed pair if you want to upgrade. You didn't mention your musical preferences.

Thanks for the great info! I will be moving the g6 amp permanently over to the PlayStation 5, hopefully soon when finances allow, and getting a more audiophile oriented amp.

As for music preferences, I’m mostly into classic rock, hard rock, metal. Led zeppelin, Beatles, Van Halen, Metallica, Guns n Roses, Rush, Def Leppard etc. though I have been listening to a wider variety of genres lately to experience the different aspects and subtleties of music I’d never known existed before getting into the hobby.

 

[gimmeheadroom]

Thanks for the great info! I will be moving the g6 amp permanently over to the PlayStation 5, hopefully soon when finances allow, and getting a more audiophile oriented amp.

As for music preferences, I’m mostly into classic rock, hard rock, metal. Led zeppelin, Beatles, Van Halen, Metallica, Guns n Roses, Rush, Def Leppard etc. though I have been listening to a wider variety of genres lately to experience the different aspects and subtleties of music I’d never known existed before getting into the hobby.

I think you will start to enjoy the Sundaras a lot with those genres, out of a good solid state amp.

I have the 400i 2020 (sort of a precursor to the Sundaras) and the HE6se V2 and they do a great job with Zepellin, Rush, Van Halen etc.

 

[Monsterzero]

Plus the Sundaras have a far lower volume limit. So I’m just a little disappointed in my purchase.

Planar headphones, like the Sundara require a lot of current to sound their best, whereas dynamic driver headphones like the Meze, like voltage. Most likely your G6 just isnt capable of providing the current that the Sundara needs.

As for music preferences, I’m mostly into classic rock, hard rock, metal. Led zeppelin, Beatles, Van Halen, Metallica, Guns n Roses, Rush, Def Leppard etc

For that type of music the Meze is okay, but the copious midbass can bleed over into the mids, which may or may not be something you've been able to pick up on being new to the hobby. The Classics are a very thumpy, fun sounding pair of headphones for sure, and it might take some time for your brain to adjust to a more balanced sounding pair of headphones.

For rock and metal, you may want to look into some Grados, which really highlight guitars and simply rock. However I find Grados to be quite uncomfortable for longer listening sessions as they are on-ear, as opposed to the others being discussed which are over-ear.

Another headphone you may want to investigate is the AKG K240 Sextett, which do what Grados do, but better and without the comfort issues. That being said, they are a truly difficult headphone to drive, coming in at a 92 sensitivity and 600 ohms. You will need a proper powerful headphone amp to bring out the best in the Sextetts. Secondly the Sextetts have been discontinued for over 45 years so buying used is a must and can typically be found for around $150.00 usd. I have multiple headphones that cost tons more, yet the Sextetts hold their own IMO.

I can also recommend the original Audio Technica AD2000 (non-X version) also discontinued and only released in Japan, the AD2000s are rarer than hen's teeth. If you can locate a pair, the AD2000s are quite fast sounding and bring forth the guitars similar to the Sextetts and Grados, but are a bit dry sounding in comparison. The best amp synergy I found with the AD2000 is the AGD R2R-11, which is a warm sounding amp/DAC combo. The warm sound signature of the R2R-11 works well with the dry sounding AD2000, giving it a bit more soul and musicality. The AD2000 also has a significant clamp force similar to the HD650, so they are not the last word in comfort.

 

[Jetsjam]

Planar headphones, like the Sundara require a lot of current to sound their best, whereas dynamic driver headphones like the Meze, like voltage. Most likely your G6 just isnt capable of providing the current that the Sundara needs.




For that type of music the Meze is okay, but the copious midbass can bleed over into the mids, which may or may not be something you've been able to pick up on being new to the hobby. The Classics are a very thumpy, fun sounding pair of headphones for sure, and it might take some time for your brain to adjust to a more balanced sounding pair of headphones.

For rock and metal, you may want to look into some Grados, which really highlight guitars and simply rock. However I find Grados to be quite uncomfortable for longer listening sessions as they are on-ear, as opposed to the others being discussed which are over-ear.

Another headphone you may want to investigate is the AKG K240 Sextett, which do what Grados do, but better and without the comfort issues. That being said, they are a truly difficult headphone to drive, coming in at a 92 sensitivity and 600 ohms. You will need a proper powerful headphone amp to bring out the best in the Sextetts. Secondly the Sextetts have been discontinued for over 45 years so buying used is a must and can typically be found for around $150.00 usd. I have multiple headphones that cost tons more, yet the Sextetts hold their own IMO.

I can also recommend the original Audio Technica AD2000 (non-X version) also discontinued and only released in Japan, the AD2000s are rarer than hen's teeth. If you can locate a pair, the AD2000s are quite fast sounding and bring forth the guitars similar to the Sextetts and Grados, but are a bit dry sounding in comparison. The best amp synergy I found with the AD2000 is the AGD R2R-11, which is a warm sounding amp/DAC combo. The warm sound signature of the R2R-11 works well with the dry sounding AD2000, giving it a bit more soul and musicality. The AD2000 also has a significant clamp force similar to the HD650, so they are not the last word in comfort.

Thanks for the great information and suggestions. When I was deciding on a pair of open backs I almost chose some grado’s at a similar price point but went with the Sundara’s instead. Oh well, live and learn.