comparing cd players? how to?

[tanghy]

I was trying to compare the differences between my CD players but I just can't seem to find any differences in them? Am I missing something?

sources: Linn Ikemi vs EAD Ultradisc2000
amp: Sugden Headmaster
HP: senn 650 with Zu cable

power cables: zu bok
i/c: grado signature or zu gede

access: SID green "mat" disc

does it make a diff that the linn is a 24bit and the EAD is a 16bit??

TIA

 

[Solude]

Comparing sources is like comparing anything else... take notes.

Pick a song list of varied, but well known material.

Play them twice back to back, listening the first pass, taking notes the seconds. The notes should be real things, levels of instruments, placement, blackness, air that sort of thing.

Do that for as many songs you have in your list. Try to keep it under 1 hour total.

Then do it again on the other piece.

Your notes will tell the story.

Best time of day to do this is morning when your ears are fully rested.

 

[Duggeh]

If you have to take painstaking notes in order to find the differences, then the differences arnt worth it and you should use the cheaper unit. IMHO.

 

[hciman77]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duggeh If you have to take painstaking notes in order to find the differences, then the differences arnt worth it and you should use the cheaper unit. IMHO.

10/10 Go to the head of the class.

If you have to stretch and strain you will only give yourself a Hernia.

 

[hciman77]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tanghy I was trying to compare the differences between my CD players but I just can't seem to find any differences in them? Am I missing something? sources: Linn Ikemi vs EAD Ultradisc2000 does it make a diff that the linn is a 24bit and the EAD is a 16bit?? TIA

If the differences are not obvious then they are subtle, if they are subtle then they are arguable or imaginary. I frequently find tow very difference sources to be indistinguishable - it happens. It is telling that you cant find a difference between 24bit and 16bit, I have had 16, 20 and 24 bit CD players and have never found the word length to be a factor of course CDs are 16 bits anyway and a 24bit translation is just interpolation or informed guesswork. Comclusion 16bits is perfectly good enough , even my old 14bit player from 1984 sounded fantastic.

 

[proglife]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duggeh If you have to take painstaking notes in order to find the differences, then the differences arnt worth it and you should use the cheaper unit. IMHO.

bingo.

original poster, be happy about it

 

[Garbz]

You need to train yourself to hear certain things. My endless experiments allow me to easily hear a poor DAC transport for instance. I've played a lot with amps too and can compare them well. But I for one can't for the life of me notice small subtractions in frequency response. I can hear if someone adds say 1db at a certain frequency, but I can't hear it when it's missing. It's something i'm learning atm.

Another friend of mine can hear even the slightest variations in frequency response and instantly pick the frequency band too, but he can't tell the difference between various amplifiers.

Another is great at both but can't tell if a song is 192kbps mp3 or flac.

It's all to do with experience in spotting differences. They are there. If you don't hear them thnk yourself lucky and grab the cheaper unit

 

[ProzacMessiah]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tanghy I was trying to compare the differences between my CD players but I just can't seem to find any differences in them? Am I missing something?

FWIW, I'm having the same experience, though considerably down-market from the CDPs you're using. I'm suddenly very curious about what differences you'd notice if you swapped out one of your high end CDPs for something in the <$250 range.

 

[fishpatrol]

I agree with both sides: if you don't hear a difference, maybe it's because there's very little audible difference to note, but maybe it's because you aren't listening as well as you might. I think it really helps to be more interested in the music than your gear: pick an album you enjoy and think you know well. Spend some time with it and get to know it better; find the musical moments you really enjoy, the instrumentation you like or don't quite dig. Then take that knowledge to a listening session with a different CDP and see if you experience those things differently. See if there are nuances that you didn't catch before, or if what-might-be-a-telephone-at-2:44 is still there or revealed to be a synth. After all, this is gear for music's sake.

 

[bigshot]

The way to discern differences (if they exist) is to take two high quality preamps and two identical cds and run the output of one CD player directly into the preamp, and the other through both preamps. Balance the line levels using the extra preamp and switch back and forth as you play the cds. Odds are, you won't hear any difference, but if you do, switch CD players so the other one goes through two preamps and see if the difference is in the preamp or the CD player.

If you have a mixing board, it's even easier.

See ya
Steve

 

[Hershon2000]

Assuming you have a 5.1 or better A/V Receiver which I prefer to play my CD's too, albeit I listen to it in 5.1 Natural Stereo Sound, I've made 2 CDRS at the same levels & connected 2 CD Players to my receiver using the same cables. I switch each player on & off on the same track of song which I play a segment from 20 -45 seconds or so. I've noticed total differences always, it might help that a decade ago I produced records for a while & notice differences in tones etc,. that might not be apparent to someone else, as my ears are kind of trained for this, especially when I mixed & mastered rock recordings. Unfortunately, or fortunately if that is the case, every single much more expensive modern CD player I've tried that was under $2,000 list price, still could not compare to the sound produced by my Pioneer PD-59 CD player which I think listed for around $550 or so when it was on the market a decade ago & shows up on Ebay for between $200- $350, every so often. The biggest difference I notice & I guess is my prejudice, is the sound tones- my Pioneer to date has produced the warmest, sweetist natural sound & the other players sound colder & harsher in comparison. I listen to mainly 60/70/80's remastered recordings & there's a certain type of sound I expect which I don't hear in most modern recordings. Interestingly enough, my niece who's 25 years younger then me, prefered most of the other CD players to my Pioneer, as she's use to a different type of sound. The thing that freaked me out the most is the biggest difference in audio quality was between my PD-59 & my somewhat state of the art Harmon Kardon 31 DVD player. CD's on the Harmon Kardon sounded way too bright in comparison to the
PD-59 though DVDs sound great on it, including music ones.

 

[bigshot]

I bet your Pioneer has a slightly higher output level. You can make two CDs that have the same volume, but the decks are all going to vary slightly. You need to carefully balance the output level of the players before you start comparing them. Otherwise, the one that is slightly louder will always sound better.

See ya
Steve

 

[PhilS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hershon2000 The biggest difference I notice & I guess is my prejudice, is the sound tones- my Pioneer to date has produced the warmest, sweetist natural sound & the other players sound colder & harsher in comparison.

Well, you have to trust your ears at some point. I've compared various CD players and DAC's from time to time, and the differences between some were quite apparent; others not so apparent. And I even found that my preferences were often not dependent on volume when that variable could not be controlled perfectly. I remember testing one player that sounded somewhat cold and harsher, like the players you are comparing to your Pioneer. An increase in the volume of such a player did not make it sound better; it only sounded even more cold and harsh. So again, at some point, you have to trust your ability to make a judgment based on what you hear. If you're happy with what you hear, no need to over-analyze it to death to the point where you reach paralysis by analysis.

 

[Hershon2000]

Good point about the output level by Bigshot & I really don't know how to respond to that other then saying I still notice a big difference in tones which I don't think can be attributed that much but output level. Again, I like the sound of 60/70/80's recordings which is kind of my source to the ideal sound in regards to tones & alot of other people like the more modern type sound as their audio standard.

 

[Don Quichotte]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hershon2000 Assuming you have a 5.1 or better A/V Receiver which I prefer to play my CD's too, albeit I listen to it in 5.1 Natural Stereo Sound, I've made 2 CDRS at the same levels & connected 2 CD Players to my receiver using the same cables. I switch each player on & off on the same track of song which I play a segment from 20 -45 seconds or so.

If you do it like this, make sure the 2 CD-Rs are identical and recorded on the same writer, etc. To my surprise, on my CD player at least, all cyanine based CD-Rs (the green-blue type) have a different sound than their phtalocyanine (lightly colored) counterparts. The former do not sound as good as the later - thicker, bassier and less articulate.