[Mike Wazowski]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bf2008 /img/forum/go_quote.gif to Mike - Hi. I started doing the format conversions and preparing the files but I've realised it's not going to be worth it. I don't really know the conclusions I'll be able to draw from it, and people could also always find tricks to tell the formats apart without actually just listening to them. Besides, I read that link with the format comparison tests and it confused me even more. I think now it'd be interesting if you could use the foobar2000 abx program and tell us the results of your experiments. It seems it's possible to install it in mac os x now. Otherwise, maybe you could try to do this test for yourself using itunes. For example, you could get a song you like, import it as lossless and 128 mp3, and then re convert the mp3 to lossless. Then, you can duplicate both files many times (say 10), keeping track of the format histories. Hopefully you won't be able to remember which one was which. Then just listen to all the files (20 if you follow what I say) and try to say whether they are mp3s or lossless. Then recheck the file histories and tell us the result of the experiment. Hope I was clear enough. Good luck

I'll respond this (US EDT) evening; sorry must run now...

 

[bigshot]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Audio-Omega /img/forum/go_quote.gif So is it iPod or CDP (less than $1,000) ? I would spend up to $1,000 for a CD player but not if an iPod is better.

Playing lossless files through the lineout, the iPod is just as good as most CD players. If a CD player happens to sound better, the difference is going to be very very small.

See ya
Steve

 

[Spunky8]

If it's true that Lossless playing on an iPod is SQ indistinguishable from, or very close to being indistinguishable from, a quality CD player, then---in my view---the decision is a no-brainer. The pick should go to iPod for all of the usual reasons: Small, portable, no clutter from cd cases, ability to organize playbooks, deletion of undesirable tracks, organization of listening order, etc.

 

[Chri5peed]

^ Ummm, you missed out the Line-out part. An iMod I guess, makes a big deal.

bigshot in your ' Playing lossless files through the lineout, the iPod is just as good as most CD players' opinion where is S/PDIF?

 

[bigshot]

The need for external DACs is over-emphasized. The DAC built into the iPod is as good as many external DACs. You'd have to spend many times the price of an iPod to get better sound quality. Personally, I use a computer as my source, and iPods for portability. No need for anything else.

See ya
Steve

 

[Contrastique]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigshot /img/forum/go_quote.gif Playing lossless files through the lineout, the iPod is just as good as most CD players. If a CD player happens to sound better, the difference is going to be very very small. See ya Steve

I'm really surprised by this statement. I found the difference to be HUGE.
I used an old CDP, Akai CD57, like 15 yrs old with an Akai AM 69 amp. Then compared it to the Ipod via dock line out, all lossless connected to the same amp...man there was not even a competition. CDP wins hands down. Don't come off with the volume thingy cause that really didn't matter, like in which one was louder than the other.
BTW, I had the CDP connected via SPDF first and later on via normal RCA, both made a hell of a differ, so much that I was really surprised about the suckiness of an Ipod.

 

[bigshot]

Sorry, but line level balancing makes a big difference. Just run a preamp between the outputs and the amp and you'll see that the difference you noticed disappears.

See ya
Steve

 

[Chri5peed]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigshot /img/forum/go_quote.gif The need for external DACs is over-emphasized. The DAC built into the iPod is as good as many external DACs. You'd have to spend many times the price of an iPod to get better sound quality. Personally, I use a computer as my source, and iPods for portability. No need for anything else. See ya Steve

Personally, I found stepping up from Line-out in my Juli@ to using Optical-out to my MicroDAC easily the biggest non-headphone jump in SQ.


I bet the DAC in a cell-phone is closer to one in an iPod, than the CS4398 in my DAC, incidentally Cirrus' best one.

 

[Mike Wazowski]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chri5peed /img/forum/go_quote.gif Personally, I found stepping up from Line-out in my Juli@ to using Optical-out to my MicroDAC easily the biggest non-headphone jump in SQ. I bet the DAC in a cell-phone is closer to one in an iPod, than the CS4398 in my DAC, incidentally Cirrus' best one.

Yep, that's the current Cirrus flagship DAC...

Redwine Audio wouldn't have been selling as many iMods as they do had iPod's DAC been hard to better for extra $250.

 

[n_maher]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigshot /img/forum/go_quote.gif Sorry, but line level balancing makes a big difference. Just run a preamp between the outputs and the amp and you'll see that the difference you noticed disappears. See ya Steve

Memo to Steve: your truth is not "the truth". Just because you don't perceive differences between different sources doesn't make it gospel. Me, I perceive more than subtle differences between CD players, DACs and certainly my Ipod.

See ya
Nate

 

[Mike Wazowski]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spunky8 /img/forum/go_quote.gif If it's true that Lossless playing on an iPod is SQ indistinguishable from, or very close to being indistinguishable from, a quality CD player, then---in my view---the decision is a no-brainer. The pick should go to iPod for all of the usual reasons: Small, portable, no clutter from cd cases, ability to organize playbooks, deletion of undesirable tracks, organization of listening order, etc.

That's a very big "if" and "very"... And it doesn't look like this can be decided by popular vote

There are CDPs that costs $5,000-10,000. Not just one model, many. Well, I hope the improvement over a $1K player I can afford is very small. In fact, I hope that all people who buy those players are just fools and snobs, and my little CDP will do just as good in any blind test - once the levels are matched, of course

 

[Mike Wazowski]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigshot /img/forum/go_quote.gif The need for external DACs is over-emphasized. The DAC built into the iPod is as good as many external DACs. You'd have to spend many times the price of an iPod to get better sound quality. Personally, I use a computer as my source, and iPods for portability. No need for anything else. See ya Steve

HeadRoom's MicroDac. $399. Connect to computer, get sound better than iPod. You'll need an amp, of course...

 

[bigshot]

The 5G used the Wolfson WM8975 DAC. Earlier generations used very similar DACs. Even as early as 3G, Stereophile was reviewing the sound quality of the iPod as just as good as standalone CD players. The current iPod Classic uses a rebranded DAC which many people think is a high end Cirrus... probably the same one that you use.

"The iPod's measured behavior is better than many CD players... Excellent, cost-effective audio engineering from an unexpected source." (Stereophile: Apple iPod portable music player)

See ya
Steve

 

[bigshot]

Quote:

Originally Posted by n_maher /img/forum/go_quote.gif Memo to Steve: your truth is not "the truth". Just because you don't perceive differences between different sources doesn't make it gospel. Me, I perceive more than subtle differences between CD players, DACs and certainly my Ipod.

Do a carefully controlled comparison and see if the differences are still there.

See ya
Steve

 

[bigshot]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Wazowski /img/forum/go_quote.gif Redwine Audio wouldn't have been selling as many iMods as they do had iPod's DAC been hard to better for extra $250.

The Redwine mod doesn't affect the DAC at all. Modded iPods still use the stock Wolfson DAC.

See ya
Steve