[sanity8me]

I just got my K712s and so far I have been very impressed with their SQ, especially the soundstage and imaging, coming out of my Centrance DACport.
 
I'm considering an amp that would make them sound even less analytical then they currently are.  Don't get me wrong, I don't consider them to be "analytical" per se, I just prefer an even warmer, more laid back type of sound for everyday music listening.
 
So what are my amp choices if I'm looking for a slightly more colored sound? I'd like to keep it at or under $200, but let me know if there are slightly more expensive options that are more worth it.
 
Tube Amps that I've been researching:
- Little Dot I+ 6JI X2 based on this review: http://www.head-fi.org/products/akg-k712-pro/reviews/17540
- Schiit Vali 2 (although I read there are popping sounds when next to a phone or router??)
 
I also have the the JH16s - so it would be a bonus if the amp synergizes well with them as well.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

  I just got my K712s and so far I have been very impressed with their SQ, especially the soundstage and imaging, coming out of my Centrance DACport.
 
I'm considering an amp that would make them sound even less analytical then they currently are.  Don't get me wrong, I don't consider them to be "analytical" per se, I just prefer an even warmer, more laid back type of sound for everyday music listening.
 
So what are my amp choices if I'm looking for a slightly more colored sound? I'd like to keep it at or under $200, but let me know if there are slightly more expensive options that are more worth it.

 
If your source is a laptop or desktop computer, there's Equalizer APO for $0. Manually set one band to 7500hz and input -7dB. If you like the sound out of that now then you can save your money and get a Meier Jazz FF, Schiit Lyr, or even a Violectric V200 later on.
 
 
 

 
Tube Amps that I've been researching:
- Little Dot I+ 6JI X2 based on this review: http://www.head-fi.org/products/akg-k712-pro/reviews/17540
- Schiit Vali 2 (although I read there are popping sounds when next to a phone or router??)
 
I also have the the JH16s - so it would be a bonus if the amp synergizes well with them as well.

 

Between those I'd go with the Vali2 if you want to use it with the JH16. I  wouldn't expect it to make the sound warm enough to make Norah Jones sound like she needs to snort chicken soup with Sriracha just to clear her sinuses though.

 

[sanity8me]

   
If your source is a laptop or desktop computer, there's Equalizer APO for $0. Manually set one band to 7500hz and input -7dB. If you like the sound out of that now then you can save your money and get a Meier Jazz FF, Schiit Lyr, or even a Violectric V200 later on.
 
 
 

 

Between those I'd go with the Vali2 if you want to use it with the JH16. I  wouldn't expect it to make the sound warm enough to make Norah Jones sound like she needs to snort chicken soup with Sriracha just to clear her sinuses though.

 
Thanks, ProtegeManiac.  And I prefer my Norah not needing to clear her sinuses! 
 
I will definitely try the equalizer APO when I come home today. I typically shy away from using an equalizer for fear of distorting the sound to an unnatural/unintended level.
 
Meier Jazz FF: This looks really interesting: "

for people who normally prefer tubes but like the reliability and energy-efficiency of solid-state".  Would you recommend it over the Lyr or Vali 2 for me? Is the non-FF version a good candidate as well?
 
Would you recommend an Audio-GD amp like the NFB-12? 
 
Also, would I be able to use my DACport as just a DAC to feed an amp?  My desktop's motherboard has a Realtek ALC892 Audio Codec, but I don't think it would be wise to use this output.

 

[PurpleAngel]

Darkvoice 336SE OTL tube headphone amplifier.
Massdrop sometimes sells it for $199, plus shipping/tax.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

 
Thanks, ProtegeManiac.  And I prefer my Norah not needing to clear her sinuses! 

 

Ummmm...so why use a colored amp? As opposed to, you know, using a relatively smooth-response headphone (or speaker) with an uncoloured amp? Or a relatively less coloured one.
 

 
I will definitely try the equalizer APO when I come home today. I typically shy away from using an equalizer for fear of distorting the sound to an unnatural/unintended level.

 

Uh...why look for a colored amp then? A colored amp can color parts of the range you did not intend to in levels you did not intend making for an overall unnatural sound. Like the Little Dot MkII and my HD600 on worn earpads together (note that on the Meier Cantate.2 the earpads were not a problem) making Norah Jones sound like she has the worst cold ever. Bass boost or tube treble roll off doesn't target problematic frequencies, like how some headphones have a peak in the treble, so you reduce that peak by as much as you reduce the area around it depending on where the roll of starts, so in relative terms, you still have a peak. There's a reason also why colored amps would have a high THD %, precisely because the coloring is still distortion. It's just that some people like giving Norah Jones a bad cold.

 

By contrast EQ will not necessarily always sound natural, but since you have control over how much you boost or cut, and in some cases, what frequency and how wide the effect will be applied from that point (as opposed to just simple graphic bands), will only ever just change based on what you intended, ie, what you put in. If you boost 25hz by 12dB and destroy the drivers while playing a Bass 305 test track, even that isn't totally unintended, since you moved that slider to 12dB. Otherwise, the thing is, you can target what frequency has a problem, particularly tall peaks.
 

 
Meier Jazz FF: This looks really interesting: "

for people who normally prefer tubes but like the reliability and energy-efficiency of solid-state".  Would you recommend it over the Lyr or Vali 2 for me? Is the non-FF version a good candidate as well?

 

I haven't heard the FF specifically but I have the older Cantate.2. The Jazz is supposedly flatter than the Cantate.2 but when it starts distorting it gets brighter, whereas, based on reviews, the FF doesn't get as bright when cranked up. Also that if I understand correctly the fluidity of the overall presentation is improved (note that this doesn't always mean you need extreme slew rates - even the base Jazz has that over cheap amps).

 

Overall the thing is technically all amps tend to be colored when pushed, it's just that solid state amps tend to have a brighter distortion pattern while most tube amps do the opposite while piling it on even before you really push it. Meiers in general go the opposite direction vs, say, the O2, but don't expect them to go as far in that direction as most tube amps do.
 

 
Would you recommend an Audio-GD amp like the NFB-12? 

 
As an all-in-one, relatively low coloration DAC-HPamp-Preamp unit, yes. It will sound warmer than a bad amp piling on distortion towards brightness, but don't expect it to deliberately color the sound, much less how it would only start doing so if you really crank it up.
 
 

 
Also, would I be able to use my DACport as just a DAC to feed an amp? 

 
Not really, AFAIK it only has headphone amplifier output, not a line out to feed another amplifier.
 
Look for a NOS DAC using Philips chips if you want something to color the sound a little bit. Like the Lite DAC-AH.

 

[sanity8me]

  Darkvoice 336SE OTL tube headphone amplifier.
Massdrop sometimes sells it for $199, plus shipping/tax.

 
Thanks for the suggestion. Any idea how it would stack up to a slightly more high end amp like, let's say, a Meier Jazz FF?  Maybe protege can provide his input here.

 

[sanity8me]

 

 

Ummmm...so why use a colored amp? As opposed to, you know, using a relatively smooth-response headphone (or speaker) with an uncoloured amp? Or a relatively less coloured one.
 

 

Uh...why look for a colored amp then? A colored amp can color parts of the range you did not intend to in levels you did not intend making for an overall unnatural sound. Like the Little Dot MkII and my HD600 on worn earpads together (note that on the Meier Cantate.2 the earpads were not a problem) making Norah Jones sound like she has the worst cold ever. Bass boost or tube treble roll off doesn't target problematic frequencies, like how some headphones have a peak in the treble, so you reduce that peak by as much as you reduce the area around it depending on where the roll of starts, so in relative terms, you still have a peak. There's a reason also why colored amps would have a high THD %, precisely because the coloring is still distortion. It's just that some people like giving Norah Jones a bad cold.

 

By contrast EQ will not necessarily always sound natural, but since you have control over how much you boost or cut, and in some cases, what frequency and how wide the effect will be applied from that point (as opposed to just simple graphic bands), will only ever just change based on what you intended, ie, what you put in. If you boost 25hz by 12dB and destroy the drivers while playing a Bass 305 test track, even that isn't totally unintended, since you moved that slider to 12dB. Otherwise, the thing is, you can target what frequency has a problem, particularly tall peaks.
 

 

I haven't heard the FF specifically but I have the older Cantate.2. The Jazz is supposedly flatter than the Cantate.2 but when it starts distorting it gets brighter, whereas, based on reviews, the FF doesn't get as bright when cranked up. Also that if I understand correctly the fluidity of the overall presentation is improved (note that this doesn't always mean you need extreme slew rates - even the base Jazz has that over cheap amps).

 

Overall the thing is technically all amps tend to be colored when pushed, it's just that solid state amps tend to have a brighter distortion pattern while most tube amps do the opposite while piling it on even before you really push it. Meiers in general go the opposite direction vs, say, the O2, but don't expect them to go as far in that direction as most tube amps do.
 
 
As an all-in-one, relatively low coloration DAC-HPamp-Preamp unit, yes. It will sound warmer than a bad amp piling on distortion towards brightness, but don't expect it to deliberately color the sound, much less how it would only start doing so if you really crank it up.
 
 
 
Not really, AFAIK it only has headphone amplifier output, not a line out to feed another amplifier.
 
Look for a NOS DAC using Philips chips if you want something to color the sound a little bit. Like the Lite DAC-AH.

 
Maybe I explained myself poorly in regards to what I'm looking for.  By colored, what I was trying to emphasize was a less bright, less fatiguing, less analytical, less neutral, more lush, and more warmer type of sound.  Would also be nice to have slightly more low end impact as well.  Don't get me wrong, my DACport actually sounds pretty damn good with the K712, but I do start hearing some slight sibilance the more I crank the volume, which I tend to do quite often with my current setup.  It's also a tad on the bright side for me at high volumes, but that's probably because I've only been using my JH16 for the past...7 or so years.  I'm a fan of the K712 sound signature - just looking to smooth out the sound a bit more.  I'm in no ways trying to drastically "COLOR" the K712's intrinsic sound signature.
 
Still scratching your head?  I probably confused you even more now...
 
I've never even heard a tube amp, but from what I'm reading I figured it's the type of sound I'm looking for.  I am however concerned about noise floor and popping sounds during close proximity to routers and phones that I've been reading about.
 
Although I am at this point leaning towards saving up a bit and getting the Jazz FF..
 
I actually unfortunately didn't get a chance to play with the Equalizer APO yesterday.  Will try again today.    
 
Regarding using my DACport as a DAC/preamp, I had to do some digging, but it finally hit me and I remembered reading a review of the DACport a WHILE ago from HeadphoneAddict where he actually had some pretty nice things to say about this.
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/473473/review-more-to-come-centrance-dacport-24-96-usb-dac-amp
 
Quote:
DACport as a 24/96 DAC/preamp feeding a full-size amp: I have a nice short but high quality ALO Audio 1/4" to RCA cable, and I have briefly tried the DACport as a DAC/preamp feeding my Woo WA6, and in my limited and brief testing I find it to do a very nice job. It's works at least as well as any other $400-500 DAC driving a full-size amp, after one evening of listening.

 

[HipHopScribe]

I wouldn't suggest an OTL tube amp like the Darkvoice for the K712's, since they're not high impedance headphones. You're better off with a hybrid like the Vali 2 and picking up a couple different tubes to tune the sound

 

[sanity8me]

  I wouldn't suggest an OTL tube amp like the Darkvoice for the K712's, since they're not high impedance headphones. You're better off with a hybrid like the Vali 2 and picking up a couple different tubes to tune the sound

 
 
Liking the price of the Vali 2, but I've read that it gives popping noises if it's close to a phone or a wireless router.  Is this true?

 

[HipHopScribe]

   
 
Liking the price of the Vali 2, but I've read that it gives popping noises if it's close to a phone or a wireless router.  Is this true?

 
I've used it extensively with my phone on my desk, a foot away, and I've never noticed that. My router is in the same room, but on the other side of the room

 

[sanity8me]

   
I've used it extensively with my phone on my desk, a foot away, and I've never noticed that. My router is in the same room, but on the other side of the room

 
Awesome.  Did you find that the Vali 2 made your sound less fatiguing and more warm overall? Was there more low end impact?

 

[ProtegeManiac]

 
Maybe I explained myself poorly in regards to what I'm looking for.  By colored, what I was trying to emphasize was a less bright, less fatiguing, less analytical, less neutral, more lush, and more warmer type of sound.  Would also be nice to have slightly more low end impact as well.  Don't get me wrong, my DACport actually sounds pretty damn good with the K712, but I do start hearing some slight sibilance the more I crank the volume, which I tend to do quite often with my current setup.  It's also a tad on the bright side for me at high volumes, but that's probably because I've only been using my JH16 for the past...7 or so years.  I'm a fan of the K712 sound signature - just looking to smooth out the sound a bit more.  I'm in no ways trying to drastically "COLOR" the K712's intrinsic sound signature.
 
Still scratching your head?  I probably confused you even more now...

 
That's better phrased as "having a distortion pattern towards warm than bright," basically Violectric, Burson, and Meier. Numerically the THD % figures aren't as high as, say, an OTL amp, if not actually be a lot closer to the O2 (maybe higher output levels too), but cranking up these amps up gets you a warmer sound than a cranked up O2.
 

 
I've never even heard a tube amp, but from what I'm reading I figured it's the type of sound I'm looking for.  I am however concerned about noise floor and popping sounds during close proximity to routers and phones that I've been reading about.

 

The problem though is that if the output impedance is high, even on a transformer-coupled amp, there's the risk that it does the exact opposite. By contrast Meier, Burson, Violectric, etc will basically have that slightly warmer tone (at least vs the O2) consistently whether you have an HD600 or K702 on these.
 

 
Regarding using my DACport as a DAC/preamp, I had to do some digging, but it finally hit me and I remembered reading a review of the DACport a WHILE ago from HeadphoneAddict where he actually had some pretty nice things to say about this.
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/473473/review-more-to-come-centrance-dacport-24-96-usb-dac-amp
 
Quote:
DACport as a 24/96 DAC/preamp feeding a full-size amp: I have a nice short but high quality ALO Audio 1/4" to RCA cable, and I have briefly tried the DACport as a DAC/preamp feeding my Woo WA6, and in my limited and brief testing I find it to do a very nice job. It's works at least as well as any other $400-500 DAC driving a full-size amp, after one evening of listening.

 
Check how it was set up, ex, if Windows volume was maxed or not.

 

[PurpleAngel]

  I wouldn't suggest an OTL tube amp like the Darkvoice for the K712's, since they're not high impedance headphones. You're better off with a hybrid like the Vali 2 and picking up a couple different tubes to tune the sound

 
My two cents is, for the value the Darkvoice provides, impedance is a minor issue, when is comes to the 336SE driving the 62-Ohm K712.
I can plug my 32-Ohm Soundmagic HP200 headphone into the Darkvoice 336SE and the audio still sounds good.

 

[sanity8me]

   
My two cents is, for the value the Darkvoice provides, impedance is a minor issue, when is comes to the 336SE driving the 62-Ohm K712.
I can plug my 32-Ohm Soundmagic HP200 headphone into the Darkvoice 336SE and the audio still sounds good.

 
Wish I could do a direct comparison with Darkvoice, Jazz FF, and Vali 2, but unfortunately I can't.  At this point I'm leaning towards the Vali 2.  Have you compared the Darkvoice to the Vali 2?

 

[PurpleAngel]

   
Wish I could do a direct comparison with Darkvoice, Jazz FF, and Vali 2, but unfortunately I can't.  At this point I'm leaning towards the Vali 2.  Have you compared the Darkvoice to the Vali 2?

 
Sorry,I do not have access to the Vali 2.
 
My best guess is the Schiit Vali 2 would be a good value for you.
Can't think of any reason you should not buy the Vali 2.