[ScottieB]

I've done a lot of research, but would appreciate some input on my particular circumstance...

I'm looking for the "perfect" closed cans to compliment (or should I say contrast?) my Senn HD600s. I think I'm looking for something more "exciting" than the senns - something with perhaps more detail, and something that will make rock (particularly) really sing, but is also good for all-around...

The first "good" headphones I had that really impressed me were the Grado SR-225. I really loved how guitars sounded thru these cans - I found rock and metal (especially hi-res DVD-A stuff) absolutely amazing to listen to thru them. After some time with the Grados I decided to try the Senns. They didn't immediately blwo me away the way the Grados did, but their overall balance and versatility made me stick with them and sell the Grados. they don't have the same detail, and not even close on the magical way guitars sound, but when A/B-ing I kept coming back to the much more full sound of the Senns.

I love my Senns and will keep them, but now I'm looking for a closed can to listen to when the wife is watching TV (home theater) in the same room. I currently have the Beyer DT-250/80 which are decent, and pretty good at isolating (not overly so, but enough that with music on it drowns out the TV). But they are kind of boring. the detail is good, not great - balanced (flat?) sound but kinda lifeless to my ears. I also like bass, but not overly so (the ultimate ears 5EBs were WAy too much for me, but the Grados were severely lacking and the Senns tend to lack on certain recordings as well).

So I'm looking for a new closed can. Isolation is important, but they don't have to be SILENT - just enough so I can listen without interference from the TV - so more isolation than my Senns, but I don't need noise cancelling or anything. just want something more fun than my DT250s, and maybe something I'd reach for over the Senns even if noise wasn't an issue. oh and I will using the rig in my Sig - Zero with HDAM to LDMKIII tube amp.

I've pretty much got my eyes on 3 - but would be open to other suggestions. My price limit is preferably $300, but could stretch to $400 absolute max. Don't care about used or new, but I am rather impatient... ha. I'm looking at the Denon d2000, the Denon d5000 and the Beyer DT770. I've heard that the d2000 is more "forward" and "lively" than the d5000, which may make me actually prefer it to the more expensive one. I've read all kinds of mixed feelings about the 770 - and I'm also kinda confused on all the different variations (pro, 250ohm, 600ohm etc).

So sorry that was so wordy - it's just me. Any advice is much appreciated.

SB

 

[ScottieB]

Sorry for the bump - great price offered for Denon 5000s - still would like to know how they compare to the 2000s based on what I'm looking for... Thanks again.

 

[Tiemen]

The Denon D2000 sounded a little boring to me. It's more or less the same as the HD580/HD600 when it comes to PRaT. There are absolutely not more exciting to my ears (but not less as well).
The bass of the D2000 is a bit slow and not very defined. Also mids (vocals) can sound recessed. So I wouldn't recommend them.

I haven't heard the D5000. They are some threads about D2000 vs. D5000.

The DT700 Pro's (80 and 250 ohm) will have too much bass for your taste.

Maybe the DT770 2005 consumer edition is an option for you. It has excellent speed. A tight and punchy bass, detailed and airy mids, and lots of treble. For some (including me) they however sound too bright.

 

[ScottieB]

Tiemen thanks very much for that.

Actually somewhat surprised that you say the Denon has similar PRaT to HD600 - not the impression I got after much reading (at least not from most) as many said they were quite forward and had quite controlled bass. Of course everyone is different, but I definitely want something that contrasts my HD600 and is more 'fun' than my DT-250...

About the DT770 - could you tell me more about your "brightness tolerance?" For me, the Grado's were very bright, but only too much so with certain sources or in long sessions. They weren't fatiguing but felt lacking to me in every aspect except details and guitar sound. Are they brighter than the SR-225s? If the brightness is similar but they have more (and punchier) bass they may be just the thing for me...

thanks again!

 

[myk7000]

d2000 hands down

Ive tried them all

 

[ScottieB]

Quote:

Originally Posted by myk7000 /img/forum/go_quote.gif d2000 hands down Ive tried them all

Do you think you could elaborate more on why? And why it might suit me in particular? I've been advised that the synergy with my tube amp (the Little Dot MKIII) and the Denons isn't great - that they prefer a good solid state... I know it is all opinion/taste so that's why I'm looking for more details. Thanks for your input either way!

 

[Taikero]

You should be considering the Ultrasone HFI-680/780 if you're looking for a good bassy closed can (Which it seems you are). $150-$200 gets you a brand new one, and if you want to in the future they benefit splendidly from a recabling from ALO Audio or APureSound (or whichever recabling company strikes your fancy).

 

[ScottieB]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taikero /img/forum/go_quote.gif You should be considering the Ultrasone HFI-680/780 if you're looking for a good bassy closed can (Which it seems you are). $150-$200 gets you a brand new one, and if you want to in the future they benefit splendidly from a recabling from ALO Audio or APureSound (or whichever recabling company strikes your fancy).

I'm certainly open to any suggestions - I just know very very little about the Ultrasone line.

I should add that: more than bass I am looking for detail and "fun" factor - bass is part of this to me, but I really would like to capture some of the Grado guitar feel combined with a more punchy bass response.

Also, a big negative on the Grado was comfort. They were ok without my glasses, but I often wear glasses at home and after 20 minutes my ears would be killing with the Grados. So I'm looking for something comfy as well... heard good things about both Denon and Beyer in this regard (and my DT250s are very comfy as well).

 

[danmagicman7]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottieB /img/forum/go_quote.gif About the DT770 - could you tell me more about your "brightness tolerance?" For me, the Grado's were very bright, but only too much so with certain sources or in long sessions. They weren't fatiguing but felt lacking to me in every aspect except details and guitar sound. Are they brighter than the SR-225s? If the brightness is similar but they have more (and punchier) bass they may be just the thing for me... thanks again!

I would steer clear of the DT770 - 250 Ohm Consumer Version...the highs are very bright and the mids are very recessed. The highs were almost like they were separated from the rest of the sound. Cymbals sounded like they were in a separate spot right next to your ear while everything else was very distant.

The DT770's have very sparkly highs that are revealing, but also get harsh and siblant. I couldn't stand them for any music but techno/electronica. But on the other hand they blew every other phone out of the water for techno because of the super-hot highs and the deep bass. Very cool listen for techno, very annoying listen for anything else.

I tried burning them in, tried on tube amp, solid state, and my friend even had a pair and they both sounded the same, so something wasn't wrong with the phones...

 

[danmagicman7]

Also keep in mind that the D2000 and D5000 don't really isolate at all. They don't leak sound, but they almost sound like they are open-backed in terms of isolation. The DT770s are a little better.

 

[intoart]

I sold my D5000s (to Taikero, in fact!) because they offered no more isolation than fully open 'phones. You will definitely hear the TV through them as if you were not wearing closed cans at all. (The sound, however, is jaw-droppingly awesome!)

 

[Tiemen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottieB /img/forum/go_quote.gif Tiemen thanks very much for that. Actually somewhat surprised that you say the Denon has similar PRaT to HD600 - not the impression I got after much reading (at least not from most) as many said they were quite forward and had quite controlled bass. Of course everyone is different, but I definitely want something that contrasts my HD600 and is more 'fun' than my DT-250... About the DT770 - could you tell me more about your "brightness tolerance?" For me, the Grado's were very bright, but only too much so with certain sources or in long sessions. They weren't fatiguing but felt lacking to me in every aspect except details and guitar sound. Are they brighter than the SR-225s? If the brightness is similar but they have more (and punchier) bass they may be just the thing for me... thanks again!

There are a lot of different opinions on the D2000.
I owned both the HD580 (very similar to the HD600) and the D2000.
I prefer the HD580 over the D2000 because of better controlled and more defined bass and much better mids.
But there's really not much contrast between the Denon and the Senn. The D2000 is a bit brighter, but that's not a good thing IMO.
This what I think of the D2000:
Plus: rich sound, at first listen a wow effect, a lot of bass, tons of details, decent soundstage, good impact and presence.
Minus: overall sound a bit dull, treble sometimes harsh and sibilant, fatiguing in the long run, bass is a bit slow, there's not much nuance in the bass (difference between acoustic and electric not always obvious), vocals sounds sometimes recessed, not good isolation for a closed can.

As for my treble tolerance, I never heard a Grado, so I can't compare.
The DT770 2005 consumer edition has too much treble energy for my taste.
Problem is that a lot of my pop and rock records are already sharp sounding.
My biggest complaint with them was the exaggerated sibilance. But I'm very sensitive to sibilance.

My favorite closed can is the DT150. Because thay have slightly rolled off highs, warm and powerful mids, great bass and good PRaT.
But others don't like them at all. There isn't a perfect headphone, let alone a perfect closed headhone....

 

[Tiemen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by danmagicman7 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I would steer clear of the DT770 - 250 Ohm Consumer Version...the highs are very bright and the mids are very recessed. The highs were almost like they were separated from the rest of the sound. Cymbals sounded like they were in a separate spot right next to your ear while everything else was very distant. The DT770's have very sparkly highs that are revealing, but also get harsh and siblant. I couldn't stand them for any music but techno/electronica. But on the other hand they blew every other phone out of the water for techno because of the super-hot highs and the deep bass. Very cool listen for techno, very annoying listen for anything else. I tried burning them in, tried on tube amp, solid state, and my friend even had a pair and they both sounded the same, so something wasn't wrong with the phones...

I concur on most, exept for the recessed mids. I never noticed recessed mids on my DT770/05. The only headphone I heard so far that I experienced recessed mids with, are the D2000 (especially with vocals).

 

[Taikero]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottieB /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm certainly open to any suggestions - I just know very very little about the Ultrasone line. I should add that: more than bass I am looking for detail and "fun" factor - bass is part of this to me, but I really would like to capture some of the Grado guitar feel combined with a more punchy bass response. Also, a big negative on the Grado was comfort. They were ok without my glasses, but I often wear glasses at home and after 20 minutes my ears would be killing with the Grados. So I'm looking for something comfy as well... heard good things about both Denon and Beyer in this regard (and my DT250s are very comfy as well).

The Ultrasone 680/780 is like a toned down Grado in the highs with a lot of punch in the lows (less punch on the 680 vs. 780, otherwise they have a similar sound signature). For some people they're somewhat circum+supra-aural, but for most they're circumaural so they should fit over your ears completely. Like most closed headphones they can make your ears somewhat warm after a bit of time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by intoart I sold my D5000s (to Taikero, in fact!)

I've been obsessively checking Fedex tracking info even though I know they won't be going anywhere for a while.

 

[ScottieB]

OK this is all very illuminating thanks all for helping me (and each other) out!

Some more questions - there are so many versions of the DT770 - 80ohm, 250ohm, 600ohm, 2005, Pro, consumer etc. And of course I've read conflicting reports in various threads (the 250ohm is better, the 80ohm is better, the Pro is better)... what is different between them? From what I gather the Pro has a different cable and a tighter fit and is a little bit less expensive, but sounds the same - is this accurate?

Sounds like the Denon's won't isolate enough for what I'm looking for - bummer but I'm sure I'lll try them someday... I'm certainly open to other suggestions, though - I know very little about Ultrasones and Audio technica...