clearing the PSX audio myth.
May 13, 2008 at 11:27 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 20

terrymx

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Kind of pointless thread, but I did it to clear this point out. I bought a used minipsx and a psx with RCA lineout from a thrift store to test out it's sound quality with RMAA and some listening. The results are pretty disappointing, but expected.





Using 16bit/44.1khz rmaa sound sample output from the two PSX to the E-MU 1212m. The RCA out goes directly to the E-MU and the Multi-out used an extra adaptors. I made various tests to make sure of the consistency. Here are the results:

miniPSX Multi-out: PSX Multi-out: PSX RCA-out:

So the RCA line out performance as comparable to an onboard soundcard or an average portable cd player's lineout.

So it's nothing spectacular, I listened to some music on it through the RCA, it sound very clean and acceptable, but not amazing. The Multi-out of the PSX has a permanent hiss noise, but at very low decibel range, but the RCA line out are clean. Still it's a great gaming system, I'm pretty sure the PS3 is going to sound very good.
 
May 18, 2008 at 10:01 PM Post #2 of 20
hmmm, i have had nothing but joy from my ps1, i would say that it sounds better than average by a long shot.
to what would you attribute all the positive comments about the scph-100x?
 
May 18, 2008 at 10:21 PM Post #3 of 20
The RCA measures OK, but the other two are abysmal, and that would be me being generous.
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May 20, 2008 at 6:32 PM Post #4 of 20
I wonder what was expected of the test results graph. I bet you that your headphones and speakers produce a graph that is many times worse.
For someone to look at those frequency sweep and say that they are very disappointing is just showing up their lack of knowledge with regards to what sound reproduction is all about.
 
May 22, 2008 at 9:27 AM Post #5 of 20
Quote:

Originally Posted by jonnywolfet /img/forum/go_quote.gif
hmmm, i have had nothing but joy from my ps1, i would say that it sounds better than average by a long shot.
to what would you attribute all the positive comments about the scph-100x?



First of all, how something sounds to you, and how something measures are two different things. Assuming that because something measures better than it should sound better makes an assumption that there is a linear relationship between audio measurements and audio enjoyment, and while I am unaware of any data that will back up this assertion - it is almost certainly completely untrue. The fact that some people enjoy tubes which produce very high levels of distortion would seem to be proof of that. All else being equal, i would expect that people will usually prefer a system that has less distortion than more (e.g. I would imagine that someone who likes the sound of their tube amp with X measured amount of distortion, would like it less if suddenly the level of distortion increased by some factor Y to X*Y, but I could be wrong). The problem is all else isn't equal.

You and I will hear the same song, reproduced by the exact same system in the same room, differently, and this is due to differences in our brains and our ears.

First of all, lets get it clear - many, many, many products get good reviews from people, despite the fact that they are crap. Skull Candy headphones would seem to be an appropriate example here. If you walked into a high school and asked kids what they thought of Skull Candy headphones, and if they thought they were good - I'm sure you would get lots of positive reviews. I doubt many people here would agree.
Why does the Sony Playstation SCPH-100x get so many positive reviews? There are lots of plausible reasons including placebo effect (they heard it was really good, and have convinced themselves that it is), that they want it to sound as good as more expensive systems - essentially cognitive dissidence. But because we hear things differently, and thus have different abilities to resolve differences between systems. This brings up another, probably more parsimonious explanation which is that it may be that the people who are recommending the sony playstation simply do not have good enough experience and/or ears/brains to hear the difference between the truly high end systems and what is merely okay. A good analogy to this is the perception of color. My dad works in the printing industry and has a very good eye for colour. He is able to resolve much more subtle differences in shades of colour than I am. I often have a hard time seeing the difference between dark blue, black - and sometimes even dark, dark brown- but I have no difference seeing the difference between red, and say green. My brother on the other hand who is colour blind can't at all resolve the difference between red and green. This is a example where it is easy to understand how someone's underlying biology affects their ability to perceive the world visually. I can pick up an object and say it's green, or red - and most people (who are not colour blind) can see it too. Furthermore, we can analyze the objects electronicaly to see what wavelengths of light they reflect and show quantitatively that they are different colours. Some peoples eyes are better at doing this than others. But when it comes to audio doing this is much more difficult. I can't hold up a tone and ask "how does this sound to you?", the way I can pick up a red ball and say "what colour is this to you?". I think this is the basis for a lot of confusion - by our biology, it is very difficult for us to discuss in a quantitative way how a tone sounds- but we have no similar difficulty with color. If you took a fully colour blind person and asked them to review a TV - one black and white, one in colour - you wouldn't be surprised that they can't tell them apart- but that's because we can easily identify that person as colour blind. But we cannot nearly as simply identify people who have varying degrees of tone deafness. It would require a lot of complicated testing in order to determine different individuals abilities to resolve different tones - and this difference would almost certainly vary with frequency. My guess is that if we did this, we would find that people who have difficulty resolving audio detail at a high level of resolution are probably also the people who think that a Sony playstation sounds as good as a Meridian 808.

This is why I think that lots of people recommend the sony playstation as a good source - simply because they can't hear the difference between it and higher end sources, so they assume that the difference must not exist. And it's true to a point - for them, a difference does not exist. In audio, as in the rest of life, one of humanities great failings is demonstrated here: People are unwilling or incapable of imagining experiences that exist outside their own perceived reality. In essence, people never think to walk a mile in someone elses shoes.
 
May 24, 2008 at 12:57 AM Post #8 of 20
What's that Ed? I can't hear you over all this static - you should hear this miniPSX I'm listening to right now - it sounds awesome! Much, much better than a Meridian 808 - if only I could get the static to go away....
 
May 24, 2008 at 2:51 AM Post #9 of 20
The mini psx has never, ever, been touted as a good playback device. Everywhere I have read about the psx as a cdp, people have been very specific in mentioning that only the Model No. SCPH-1001 is the great one.

That looks like a nice clean and stable graph of it's performance across the range. Is that a fabulous CDP for the 5-20 bucks you can easily obtain one for? (I picked one up from a garage sale for 7 bucks a few weekends ago)

Hell yes.

The obsession with people wanting to call it some multithousand dollar CDP dragonslayer is a common trend which very obviously does not make sense, from the very get go.
 
May 24, 2008 at 7:07 AM Post #10 of 20
"Mythbusters"
smily_headphones1.gif

Thanks for buting the PSX myth...
 
May 29, 2008 at 4:53 AM Post #12 of 20
Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMarchingMule /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Sweet, very nice and thorough job.

Do the iMod next!
biggrin.gif



lol!

long story minimized --> the chip in the PSX is pretty good, relative to lower/mid end stuff...

if i had no CDP and only a PSX laying around, i'm using that sucker!
 
May 29, 2008 at 7:25 AM Post #13 of 20
It's already been discussed on this board, but comparing the SCHP-1001 to a PSONE is a complete waste if you're simply trying to compare the output differences between connectors. Both systems utilize entirely different DACs and output stages. The 1001 simply had a relatively superior DAC to, IIRC, all other models of the original playstation, and even that DAC is known to be garbage by todays standards. Any benefit received from the use of the RCA jacks on the 1001 is likely due to a better match of impedance or rather less signal loss compared to the multi-out cable, but then you still have the difference in circuitry to think about.

Bottom line is that, as was mentioned before, it's an excellent choice for playing CDs because it is so cheap and it doubles as a gaming console. Another option is the Sega Dreamcast. Actually, with as old as they are becoming, an XBOX or PS2 become attractive as well since they can also play DVDs and support component-out abilities.
 
May 29, 2008 at 4:39 PM Post #14 of 20
And Lord knows, only measurements can properly attest to sound quality.



(those are pretty impressive specs for an under 30 dollar player!!!)

(We need to get rid of all those nasty tubes next! They measure horribly!))
 
Jun 2, 2008 at 3:28 PM Post #15 of 20
Thanks for the RIAA measurements but so what?

I have A/B engouh times to know that the PSX is the real deal. No amount of measurement data will change my mind. (It would be helpful if you can do a FFT of the output 1Khz tone
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Please also note PSX improves drmatically when you beef up its power supply. e.g. better power cable, AC filtering, dedicated line, etc

For the record, I am neither inexperienced at sound analysis nor possessing inferor equipments; I further have no problem saying a $30 CDP sounds better than a $1000 CDP or vice versa.
 

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