[AdamZuf]

Jeeeeeez, don't make me look at speakers, i might do something stupid. i'm broke!
(anyway, let's not get out of topic too much..)

 

[stuartr]

I own HD-580s with a clou blue and the K1000s...I have heard several of the other phones. I prefer the K1000s if you can find a good listening environment and the proper amp. The K1000s benefit from a proper amp more than any other phone I have heard. I think they are well matched with a good tube amp. I generally drive them out of a Conrad Johnson CAV-50, which is my main speaker amp as well. I have never heard a string quartet sound more real (other than in person of course), than with the K1000s and the CAV-50. Soundstaging is far more important in classical than it is in anything other than jazz, and you want a phone that can keep up. Combine this with the detail of the K1000s and their pace (they can handle pizzicato as well as long bowings). For the phones listed, my first choice would be the K1000s, followed by the 600s with an upgraded cable (don't have enough experience to differentiate...cardas was nice though). Good luck. Keep in mind though, you will need to pair with a good amp...this is especially hard for the K1000s, as you can easily spend over 1000 dollars just to get them a decent power source. The rest of the phones are more forgiving to varying degrees.

 

[DanG]

Quote:

Originally posted by fewtch They are specifically voiced to sound "outside of head" and as if music were coming from all directions... thus the tradeoffs in a few other areas.

To me those trade-offs just aren't worth it. And the outside-of-head experience does not translate to realistic imaging -- it still sounds all around the head and not in front, so I don't think it's worth it. The lack of intimacy makes ambient music better on it, as you say. I don't listen much to that, though -- if I want to listen to music, I'm listening to the music.

I haven't heard the HD600 in a while, though I did own it for about four months with the Cardas cable and two months without it. I've also heard it in many set-ups. However, it would be interesting to give it another chance and listen to the piano on it, as you suggest.

Quote:

My main gripe is the slightly veiled upper midrange/lowertreble you mention, but then we'd get to listen to one person after another complaining about "brightness" and how their ears hurt after extended listening...

That's a trade-off, just as you mention. These headphones seem to have been made to be good for using for relaxed listening, as its most common purchasers are probably high-end speaker owners who need headphones that they can listen to at night when the wife and kids are sleeping.

 

[DanG]

Quote:

Originally posted by stuartr The K1000s benefit from a proper amp more than any other phone I have heard. ... Keep in mind though, you will need to pair with a good amp...this is especially hard for the K1000s, as you can easily spend over 1000 dollars just to get them a decent power source. The rest of the phones are more forgiving to varying degrees.

That's why I'd recommend Ety ER-4S over the K1000 -- for someone who doesn't have a lot of money to spend on a great source, pre-amp, and power amp, it doesn't make much sense to get a K1000. The Etymotic, however, works well with all sorts of sources and doesn't need quite as good of an amplifier. Plus, it creates a good listening environment whereas the K1000 needs absolute silence around it.

 

[stuartr]

Everything you said is correct Dan. I forgot to mention the ER-4S. I own them as well. They have, perhaps, a similar style to the K1000 with utterly different presentation. While the K1000s are totally outside your head and like a speaker, the ety's are completely in the head. Both are very detailed and accurate...great for classical. I listen to my ety's (4S) happily out of a sharp DS-8 minidisc player. I use them far more often than the K1000s. That said, with each in its ideal listening environment, the K1000s win hands down on the strength of their imaging and soundstaging.

 

[DanG]

It's also interesting how both the K1000 and ER-4S are often derided for their unique presentations of bass. I didn't get to play around enough with the K1000 when I heard it in a great system (Cary 306/200 -> Cary CAD-300SEI) to get good bass. No matter how hard I tried, though, cello and lower piano seemed somewhat thin (I was probably listening to Brahms piano quartets and Beethoven string quartets). For some reason, though, I got a rather fuller sound when listening to orchestral music (I think it was Mahler 7). This was a long time ago, though, so I'm going on what I remember were my impressions rather than what I remember hearing. I don't remember you ever mentioning that you use a sub to flesh out the sound of the K1000. Do you find you have adequate bass nevertheless?

 

[stuartr]

Well, my amp blew an internal fuse or something (boo), so it is currently in VA at CJ for repairs, so I can't tell you directly, but I remember the K1000s sounding very full and excellent on the cello. I don't use a sub. When listening at Orpheus's house with a monster sub, it sounded even better. I don't think it sounds thin for the cello though. For a full orchestra though, it might be different. Basses and the brass and percussion sections can go a lot lower than the cello's low c, so it might make a difference. Probably no more than in a good speaker system. For me, it is not that big of a deal. If I need to feel bass strong enough to rumble my tummy, I'll just go to the orchestra.

 

[Ph34rful]

I am gonna go with HD600 w/upgrade cable.
In my case... The Equinox.

I now have CD3000 but I don't feel it does classical as well. Something just doesn't seem quite right.

 

[Geek]

The HD600 with a cardas cable through a great amp and front end have the ability to bring even the most concentrated audiophile to tears over some good classical music.

As for the others:
The K1000 has much better imaging but lacks in accurate bass (the cellos aren't as punchy and the string bass is anemic). I'm not too fond of its highs either.

The CD3000 is brittle, bright, and plasticky with colored unrealistic bass and a less coherent midrange.

The DT880 is a close second but it's not as coherent or clear as the HD600 powered properly; again it's quite close in fidelity to the HD600/cardas. Mabye if the DT880's cables were upgraded. . .

That's my take on things.

Cheers,
Geek

 

[dparrish]

AdamZuf,

I will chime in to somewhat agree with your assessment of the HD600's slight edginess in the treble regions. 5-10k is actually much more of an audible region than the 10k and above, where the HD600 is flatter. I believe that the 5-10k dip creates a bit of edginess to the sound, particularly noticeable to me when using the HD600 with the Cardas cable upgrade. In general, I like what the Cardas upgrade cable does for the HD600, but this is one quibble that I have with it, in that it seems to exacerbate this problem.

I have heard the Sony CD3000s only briefly and have not yet had the chance to hear the Beyer DT880s (although I have great respect for Beyer phones, having owned a 990 for some years), but of those listed, I would say the HD600s OVERALL are the best of the bunch I've heard.

Having said this, I can't imagine either the CD3000 or DT880 being better (or as good as) than my Stax Omega II phones.

I don't particularly subscribe to the idea that more than one phone is necessary for classical due to the different styles, instrumentation, etc. In fact, I believe that finding the right phones for classical is at once the easiest and the most difficult. It is the easiest in that classical music lovers are looking generally for a phone that reproduces the sounds of ACOUSTIC (that is, non amplified at the instrument's source) instruments faithfully, so an ACCURATE phone SHOULD be all that is needed. With pop music, most of the instruments are amplified and therefore it is VERY difficult to determine through listening what sounds most "accurate". On the other hand, finding the right classical phone is most difficult in that classical music is generally more dynamic and contains many more nuances than pop music. So the phone must be able to reproduce these things.

Although there are still a number of amps/phones I have not heard (although I have heard quite a few), FOR ME the Omega II phones when paired with a proper amp come the closest BY FAR to reproducing classical music faithfully. Every other combination I've tried to-date has sounded colored, artificial, and often too bright, especially in the reproduction of string sounds. It's been amazing to me that so many of the recordings I once thought were just too bright (newer ones even) now sound much more natural with the Stax.

 

[AdamZuf]

great thread, guys!
i love it how outside the "classical cimmunity" the CD3000 tend to almost rule (in the <$400 price range, you have noticed i didn't put K1000, HP-1000 or W2002 in the poll), and how inside of it almost no one likes it! (at least from the people that bothered to write opnions after they voted)
it's a proof the it all depends on the type of music.
but my assumption here, is that because classical tends to be recorded often in high quality, abd it is less prone to lousy soundmans abuse, then in many cases, there is a bigger need for a phone that actually brings out what's on the recording.
as said before, other music types are amplified, and averagely tend to get messed up with more proccesors and maybe monitored not that good, so there's a need here for "compensation phones" - which will bring out what the true recording can't bring out with the ideal reproduction system.
BUT, because i have much experience with EQ'ing, i'll try to EQ these CD3000 and report back. i believe i can reach a much better (still compromising to some degree of coarse) result, as i did with the HD600.
i think the CD3000 absolutly slaughters the HD600 in terms of resolution, and maybe they have a good potential to become much preferable to most people with a slight fix.

i would still appreciate more comments on why you didn't like the CD3000 and how it affected the instruments.
by now (some told i didn't break them in yet, but i believe it's true), the most problematic is a mid-bass hump, that causes too much echoing overall and to the lower end of simbals, pianos "wwwwoooooo", flutes are heavy, female vocals not full of life. still need to phrase how it affects lower frequency dominating instruments on classical.

 

[Dusty Chalk]

I've heard the K1K, CD3K, and HD0.6K (and, for that matter, several AT's and Beyers). All are extremely enjoyable, but you specifically asked natural, so I went with the earspeakers.

 

[AdamZuf]

which are the K1000, if somebody doesn't know!

jeezzz..guys.you got to stop loving the K1000 that much.. it's not one of the options... and it's not an option for me!!

the reason i left them out of the poll is their high cost and the higher cost for a proper amp to drive them (and actually sounds good).
i wanted to stay in the reasonable price range.

 

[Dusty Chalk]

Quote:

Originally posted by AdamZuf which are the K1000, if somebody doesn't know!

Quote:

...you got to stop loving the K1000 that much.. it's not one of the options... the reason i left them out of the poll is ...

Actually, you may want to look at your choices again (specifically, #5).

 

[AdamZuf]

damn it, you are right!
i didn't want to enter these!

well, **** happens..i probably thought of them at that moment and forgot the original plan

(well, my mind is kind of a mess in the last few days)

well, that explains the praises for K1000, doesn't it?