[matt8268]

I love classical out of my Stax...heaven!

 

[drarthurwells]

Originally Posted by drarthurwells:
HD650 has muddled inner detail with loud complex symphonic passages.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SennFan Muddled inner detail with the 650's??? Muddle-To mix confusedly; jumble. Maybe we're not listening to the same work but with symphonic works by Dvorak, Tchaikovsky, Mahler, Sibelius, Beethoven, Brahms, Schubert, Mozart etc passages are resolved clearly and coherently whether they are f, ff or pp for that matter. The harmonics and overall breadth of passages is far from being confused or jumbled in the slightest IMO with the 650s. 650's are an excellent choice.

Art: SA5000 and Qualia 010 are the inner detail champ - K701 is not too far behind. HD650 tends to mass instruments together - fails to separate them from one another with air surronding them - in complex passages. Any headphone can separate instruments with air surrounding them when not too many instruments are playing.

Read what a very knowledgable poster said near the end of this thread:


http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=166962

 

[Dusty Chalk]

Properly amped, there should be nothing wrong with the Senns.

I prefer to listen via headphones, but only because I prefer headphones for a lot of things. If my background was as black on my speaker rig, I think I might enjoy classical music on my speaker rig.

 

[FalconP]

Quote:

Originally Posted by matt8268 I love classical out of my Stax...heaven!

Me too! The fine details are ravishing.

 

[xchagg]

I prefer the HD650 to Ety 4P/S for Classical Music, even on the detail side. (I'm assuming the Ety's detail/brightness are somewhat similiar, hopefully, to the Sonys. Correct me if I'm wrong. I'll prob never hear/own a SA5k beacuse I've resolved never to buy another Sony headphone/earphone after experiencing ridiculously short equipment lifespans)

The Etys present EVERY single detail full force in your face, so much so that you can't pick out individual details without concentrating very hard. It is good for small detail retrieval; but for normal listening the detail is too much. It overwhelms.

The Senn 650s still present all the details, just not overemphasized like the Etys, and that allows your ears/mind/brain (whatever) the time to sift through and pick out details at one's own leisure. This way is more enjoyable for me - instead of having the details in a piece forced down my ears, with the Senns I can explore the sound myself.

 

[sonance]

Nothing can touch a high end speaker system for classical music (for my tastes) - short of the real thing of course.
Not everyone has access to a well matched, high end speaker system in a good listening room for space, practicality, knowledge and cost reasons, but waving these factors away, I would pick a high end speaker system. The sense of scale, impact, immersion, reality, and soundstaging is superior. Even that last bit of detail that you think is an advantage of headphones *is* available with a high end speaker system - in fact I'd say placement of instruments is part of that detail - something that headphones simply cannot do as well. Visceral bass impact is the same way, heard but not felt through your entire body with headphones.
That said, in my opinion, symphonic music has to be listened to loud enough to allow the dynamics of these recordings to shine through. Quiet passages must be crystal clear and yet vividly contrasted with the louder ones. If you have a full range system, this means things get LOUD at certain points. Many people simply cannot listen to this sort of music at these levels often. In the end, headphones often win 'in the real world' but I still dream of a paradise where I can listen in peace, at reference levels to a world class speaker based system to my heart's content - any time, day or night. I can dream, can't I?

 

[sniks7]

I find large orchestral music the least convincing of any through speakers: I think it's very very difficult to capture the scale in a normal domestic room.

Add a piano and things get even worse: I've never come across a hifi that can sound anything other than a music system with piano works..

Smaller scale stuff goes wonderfully with speakers, though. Chamber music can be great, and for some reason simple choral music seems to work quite well too. Not sure why, but I love Tallis and Purcell through speakers.

Headphones can convey the energy of individual instuments in the mix, but seem to fall down when trying to do the whole. It's probably as suggested by an earlier poster, that their isn't much visceral energy from headphones..

 

[Sleestack]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sniks7 I find large orchestral music the least convincing of any through speakers: I think it's very very difficult to capture the scale in a normal domestic room. Add a piano and things get even worse: I've never come across a hifi that can sound anything other than a music system with piano works.. Smaller scale stuff goes wonderfully with speakers, though. Chamber music can be great, and for some reason simple choral music seems to work quite well too. Not sure why, but I love Tallis and Purcell through speakers. Headphones can convey the energy of individual instuments in the mix, but seem to fall down when trying to do the whole. It's probably as suggested by an earlier poster, that their isn't much visceral energy from headphones..

I have to disagree. Large scale orchestral and choral music sounds stunning through a proper speaker system. Good speakers can convery both the dynamics and huge soundstage required to properly capture the sacle . That being said, not many speakers and rooms can do it properly.


Personally, I feel for any kind of music, a good speaker system is always going to be better than a good heaphone rig.

 

[Tyson]

I prefer listening through these (one of the very, very few speakers that do large orchestral and close up solo piano quite well):

 

[fjf]

Wow! Are these ribbon tweeters?. Impressive!. Are they better than electrostatics (say...a quad setup)?.

 

[Tyson]

Yep, ribbon tweeters (truly capable of full output to 25khz), planar-magnetic mids with 1/20th the mass of even the lightest ceramic midrange, and are much, much lither than the heavier carbon treated paper ala scanspeak, or polycarbon almost everyone else uses. The advantage of the Planar Magnetic vs. the Electrostatic (use in Martin Logans, InnerSound, Quads) is the use of a true push-pull configuration - i.e., magents on the front and rear of the driver, so that it's movement is fully controled by the signal for both it's forward and rearward motion, unlike almost every other driver type, which all use some kind of a physical, non-electronic, means of controlling half of the driver's motion.

Plus the midbass and low bass woofers are woven carbon fiber (not paper treated with carbon, but true woven carbon fiber), probably the only material stiff and light enough to keep up with the midrange panels (aluminum and ceramic could work well too, but they have problems with ringing). Basically the transient response and transparency is unparalled, even speakers like the big Apogees of Magnepans or Martin Logans don't really compare.

Throw in a slot loaded down-firing that gives full output down to sub bass levels (25hz) and it's pretty friggin amazing. I've owned lots of speakers before these, and seriously auditioned at least 150 others, and these guys are as close to perfect (for me) as anything I've ever heard, regardless of price. They are still somewhat costly, but I've had them for 4 years and I'm just as happy with them now as I was during those giddy days when I first got them.

The "very" cool thing about these speakers is that they are upgradable. Normally when a speaker maker comes out with a new and improved model, you have to sell your old speaker & buy the new one to get the improved version. With this company, the owner/president makes sure that all upgrades can be retrofitted to existing speakers and gives them to current owners at cost. Very, very cool, I've already upgraded mine 3 times, and have another one coming in the next couple of months.

 

[tim_j_thomas]

Tyson,

Those speakers are awsome. What kind are they?

 

[Tyson]

They are the VMPS RM40's. Website is http://www.vmpsaudio.com

They have a smaller version called the RM30 which are 90% as good for about half the price (I've auditioned them pretty extensively), and a larger version called the RMX which are absolutely the most amazing speakers I've ever heard (and priced accordingly).

Everyone has their own preferences for what they want in speakers, so there's no perfect speaker for everyone, but for my preferences the RM40's are perfect. The specific areas that a speaker has to "wow" me is microdynamics, macrodynamics, tonal accuracy, transparency, transient response, accurate (and percussive) bass response, and the ability to sound "big" with large scale music, and the ability to sound intimate with small scale music. Also, the ability to reproduce both the fundamentals of a musical note along with the accompanying overtones and harmonics is pretty critical to me too.

The only downside of the RM40's is that they are pretty picky about what amp is driving them. You need something that has a lot of smoothness and a lot of finess or the shortcomings of your amp will be brutally exposed by the super-transparent midrange panels and ribbon tweeter. But that same amp has to be able to control 14 seperate drivers (7 per speaker), plus passive radiator and pump out bass that is capable of rattling pictures off the wall (ask me how I know that they can rattle pics off the wall). So you truly need an amp that is "an iron fist in a velvet glove", and in my experience those are almost as rare as the speakers themselves.