[mypasswordis]

I'm looking for some headphones that are obtainable (used or new) for 200 bucks or less that do classical music justice, specifically opera and solo violin and some orchestral. Other genres like rock are somewhat necessary, but do not take priority over the classical music. I am hoping to get around to building a DIY amp soon (PPA, M^3, Millet Hybrid, some other?) if that helps to narrow something down. Can anyone help me?

 

[augustwest]

The Sennheiser hd580's might be a good choice for you. You get 99.5% of what the hd600's have to offer, and they are great classical cans. You will need an amp to make them sound their best.

- augustwest

 

[dk123]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mypasswordis I'm looking for some headphones that are obtainable (used or new) for 200 bucks or less that do classical music justice, specifically opera and solo violin and some orchestral. Other genres like rock are somewhat necessary, but do not take priority over the classical music. I am hoping to get around to building a DIY amp soon (PPA, M^3, Millet Hybrid, some other?) if that helps to narrow something down. Can anyone help me?

Maybe a used pair of DT880.

 

[mypasswordis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by augustwest The Sennheiser hd580's might be a good choice for you. You get 99.5% of what the hd600's have to offer, and they are great classical cans. You will need an amp to make them sound their best. - augustwest

I read there's a veil with the Sennheisers in the upper midrange/lower treble, which is right where violins/sopranos are. Does that affect anything?

 

[mypasswordis]

Maybe I made my requirements too specific?

I'm pretty sure I want something that has a liquid smooth and present midrange and I know that's AKG's strongpoint, even though no one has mentioned them yet, which is rather strange...

 

[seacard]

My order at $200 would be: 1) HD600, 2) K601, 3) DT880. I also think you can do quite well at around $100 with K501 or HD580

 

[mypasswordis]

Thanks for the recommendations. However, I thought of a new angle to try...

Of the phones listed, which have the most (I know this isn't any sort of audiophile terminology) presence? I don't mind whether it's lean/warm or bright/dark but a feeling that takes hold of you immediately and keeps you listening until the very end? Something that feels very strong and present, as opposed to weak or fading.

 

[go_vtec]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mypasswordis Thanks for the recommendations. However, I thought of a new angle to try... Of the phones listed, which have the most (I know this isn't any sort of audiophile terminology) presence? I don't mind whether it's lean/warm or bright/dark but a feeling that takes hold of you immediately and keeps you listening until the very end? Something that feels very strong and present, as opposed to weak or fading.

By Presence, I'm assuming you are refering to live sound, realism, presence, and aliveness (interchangeable terms) describe the feeling that you are listening to actual, in-the-flesh instruments rather than their reproduction?

I think Audio Technica ATH-A900 should fit the bill. It sounds good driven by soundcard or portable device. It has slightly more emphasis on low and high instead of HD595 where midrange is more pronounced. I used Audio Technica A900 on classical and pop music.

However if you want exciting sound that you want to hear more and more, you should also put Grado SR-225 in your short list. Although Grado is more suitable for rock, it still sounds good when I listen to classical and violin solo. It has a very tight hard hitting bass, good midrange and very tight sounding highs. FYI, I found a dedicated headphone amp helping to create more convincing presence in my music through Grado and Audio Technica.

 

[seacard]

Quote:

Originally Posted by go_vtec By Presence, I'm assuming you are refering to live sound, realism, presence, and aliveness (interchangeable terms) describe the feeling that you are listening to actual, in-the-flesh instruments rather than their reproduction? I think Audio Technica ATH-A900 should fit the bill. It sounds good driven by soundcard or portable device. It has slightly more emphasis on low and high instead of HD595 where midrange is more pronounced. I used Audio Technica A900 on classical and pop music. However if you want exciting sound that you want to hear more and more, you should also put Grado SR-225 in your short list. Although Grado is more suitable for rock, it still sounds good when I listen to classical and violin solo. It has a very tight hard hitting bass, good midrange and very tight sounding highs. FYI, I found a dedicated headphone amp helping to create more convincing presence in my music through Grado and Audio Technica.

I would agree with those two recommendations, unless you have ever heard an orchestra live or know what those instruments should sound like. Just kidding (sort of), but classical music sounds NOTHING like it is presented on those two headphones.

I don't really know what you mean by presence, however, so maybe those two would fit the bill. For me, those are some of my least favorite headphones in the $200 range.

 

[sejarzo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mypasswordis I read there's a veil with the Sennheisers in the upper midrange/lower treble, which is right where violins/sopranos are. Does that affect anything?

IMHO, you need to listen to them for yourself to determine if that is the case. I think HD600's are open and neutral, not "veiled" at all, when driven with a headphone amp or a preamp with adequate voltage capability, playing well-recorded classical material.

As to whether they are "veiled" when driven by a portable source alone, I can't comment--I've never listened to my HD600's that way, I'm strictly a "home listener". But since you intend to build an amp, their sound when driven by a portable only doesn't seem to be your major concern.

As you might imagine by now, I typically find Grados and similarly "more forward" phones too peaky, if not grainy/overly etched, on classical music.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think a lot of the people who think Senns are "veiled" are not "primarily classical/acoustic listeners".

 

[sgprater]

Quote:

Originally Posted by go_vtec However if you want exciting sound that you want to hear more and more, you should also put Grado SR-225 in your short list. Although Grado is more suitable for rock, it still sounds good when I listen to classical and violin solo. It has a very tight hard hitting bass, good midrange and very tight sounding highs. FYI, I found a dedicated headphone amp helping to create more convincing presence in my music through Grado and Audio Technica.

Seconded. I was comparing my HD595s to my new SR225s this afternoon with some of my favored classical music, mainly baroque strings, and I was surprised at how much clearer and more lively the SR225s sounded to my ears. One pleasant surprise about the SR225s is the powerful bass; at times, the cello was almost too strong on the lower notes (but I'm not much of bass freak, except with lemon and butter). Many people prefer the Sennheiser line for classical, but for an in-your-face presentation around $200, it's hard to beat the SR-225 (in my very limited experience).

 

[mypasswordis]

I play the violin, am in an orchestra, and I know lots of people who play acoustic (well, and electric) guitar, so I think I know how the real instruments sound.

Well, what I'm trying to convey by using the word 'presence' is basically referring to the "laid-back" sound people associate with some headphones, Sennheisers in particular. That's exactly what I don't want; I don't want to relax and drift off into sleep or start daydreaming. Of course, I don't want a sibilant, shrieking contraption either...

EDIT
Didn't see your post until after I posted, sejarzo. I think you may be right about the Sennheiser "veil", I just wanted to use that as an example of what people describe as a laid-back sound which I don't particularly want...

 

[cvince]

I've played piano for 15 years (now ARCT performers level if you are familiar with the Royal Conserveratory of Music), and I've played in may ensembles in the past, so like you, I have a trained, musical ear and I know how instruments should sound.

I only own the $97 Grado SR80s, but I've spent quite a while with the higher end $190 SR-225s, and I am particularly moved by violin passages on all grado headphones, because the timbre of the instruments is very noticable due to an extremely creamy smooth midrange and sweet treble. Every texture from the squeak of rosin of a violin's bow to the ring of a piano string in a fortissimo note is audible with extreme clarity and transperancy. Vocals are especially impressive. Though some might argue that grados are not the most accurate phones in existence (there is a treble peak that can be painful for some recordings that I will talk about later), I can conclude that they are the most musical form of sound reproduction I have ever heard.

Most people recommend grados as a rock phone. I personally disagree. Though impactful, the bass doesn't extend deep enough to provide a powerful beat with any authority. Additionally, the lower bass frequencies are looser than comparably priced headphones (DT880s, Senn HD650). Snares and cymbals, however, are well presented due again to the nice treble and awesome midrange.

If soundstage is important to you, I would avoid the Grados that I've tried (I doubt the rest are any different), because with Grados, it is something that is pretty much nonexistant. It sounds like all instruments/vocals are about 4ft away from you. Although things sound incredibly real, the locations of the sources of sound make no logical sense (For example, the drum set in a Wynton Marsalis CD occupies the whole stage from left to right).

Be wary before jumping on the Grado boat. The grados are extremely bright phones, and you might not like them (I didn't like them immediately when I purchased my 80s). Because of an intense treble peak in the 7-11khz range, bright pop and rock recordings are fatiguing to listen to due to EXTREME sibilant accentuation. However, judging from your post, I get the impression that you are listening to a lot of refined ensemble music, for which sibilance is hardly a problem. I would try them out at a local Hi-fi store before purchasing.

All my opera, baroque, classical, romantic tracks sound incredible with these phones. Rock can sometimes be painful, but it's mostly poorly recorded pop with too much reverb (which accentuates "S" and "sh" sounds made in the 7-11khz range) that hurts my ears to the point that I have to discontinue use with these SR-80s.

 

[robm321]

I know it sets people off when anything negative is mentioned in regards to Senns, but I'm more interested in helping someone who is interested in classical headphones. The Senn 600/650's do have a veil (recessed upper midrange). It is helped by the Cardas cable which brings them out a little without changing the sound signature. Senns sound great with all classical, but to me and some others, they are not always the most engaging cans. For others, they are - you'd have to try them out to really understand.

The AKG's (601-701) sound great with classical like the Senns, and if you don't mind giving up some soundstage Grado's reproduce timbre very well along with the excitement of the music.

I haven't heard DT880s (newer version), but I hear they excel at classical music -others might comments about that.

Your price range is a very good one with lots of choices.

 

[mypasswordis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cvince I've played piano for 15 years (now ARCT performers level if you are familiar with the Royal Conserveratory of Music), and I've played in may ensembles in the past, so like you, I have a trained, musical ear and I know how instruments should sound.

Wow, amazing! It's nice to see musicians of your caliber on the site. I played a bit of piano before I started the violin, so I vaguely know what a piano is supposed to sound like, but since you say Grado's reproduce the piano sound so well, it must be true. You know, I've always thought Grado's would be good at more intimate classical music, and you basically just said the same thing. Wow, I'm not completely crazy

I'm sure the soundstage doesn't matter or could actually be beneficial with the more intimate classical music, but with orchestral works, it could be a problem. Oh well, I suppose you can't have everything in a single pair of headphones, especially on a tight budget. Thanks a lot for your help.