Clash of the Titans: Sony R10 vs. Audio Technica ATH W2002 at chez markl...

[redshifter]

to me "in utero" sounds like you are standing in a garage next to the band while they play.

i actually prefer it to the more polite production on "nevermind".

 

[Flasken]

bla bla bllluuuuddd blu ble blaaard

 

[M Rael]

...reading more of the escapades behind the recording of InUtero its funny how differently records can come out in the hands of one producer over another. This is the argument to have an equalizer at home if there ever was one. The last thing I read was that they remastered the album before release and boosted the vocals by 3db and twidled with the bass sound. Its wild to read just how little of a 'natural event' a rock recording is.

 

[markl]

We've digressed a little here

, but this is an interesting topic in its own right.

On one side, you have people who argue that a recording should attempt to emulate the live event, and those that say, why not use all this great technology in the service of art and music. Yes, you can get out of control and easily ruin songs with pointless special effects badly done, and it doesn't make much sense to use the studio as an instrument if you're recording say, Bob Dylan, for example. The recording style needs to match the performer and the music.

In the case of a band like Nirvana, I don't think it's "cheating" at all to use the studio to enhance the listening experience. I say, go for it! Based on what I've read, Kurt and the band loved the way Nevermind came out, until they became suddenly popular and he freaked and started to question everything he stood for. Out of that confusion, I think he went the other direction with In Utero. I think it was a deliberate attempt to "right-size" his audience, by alienating some of them.

As it happens, I like both albums very much and will have them in my collection forever.

markl

 

[M Rael]

Quote:

Originally posted by markl ..until they became suddenly popular and he freaked and started to question everything he stood for.

Oh thats just hilarious.. I dont know if it IS true, but it really sounds true. I laughed out loud when I read that characterization of Cobain. I was totally sorry to see him go though. What a mess.

You know markl, I dont think the 'live is best' argument ever applied to rock music, did you? I've seen my fair share of live concerts (Kiss, ZZ Top, Led Zeppelin, the Go-Go's (!)) but I cant imagine someone with a straight face saying a live rock concert is the standard with which to judge stereo sound reproduction. The musicians dont seem to have straight faces (or bloodstreams), thats for damn sure. Maybe instead of live music being the standard, its what.. I cant think of what the standard would be. There IS no standard! I'm keeping my equalizer!

 

[kelly]

I'm sorry guys but I really have to get this out. In my humblest little opinion, Nirvana was the trigger for the floodgate of utter **** that would fill the airwaves for the next ten years virtually eliminate the chances of artists from any genre that wasn't "grunge" or "alternative" from being able to release an album.

You know, I'm not completely sold on the conspiracy theories about MTV and Kurt's death being a ploy to shift the industry, but it's plausible enough. And if that's not true and the whole thing really was just a happy little commercial accident that exploded in the face of a would be punk nobody, then Kurt must have felt much the same was as I do.

</rant>

Kelly

 

[M Rael]

Quote:

Originally posted by kelly In my humblest little opinion, Nirvana was the trigger for the floodgate of utter **** that would fill the airwaves for the next ten years virtually eliminate the chances of artists from any genre that wasn't "grunge" or "alternative" from being able to release an album. Uh, I'm not sure what the point to that is. The Beatles absolutely crushed the popular music competition (yes I said competition, its a business too after all) for several years, making it hard for people to look at the Everly Brothers etc. quite the same way again. And it doesnt do any good to say 'oh, the Beatles were artists, Nirvana is just a bunch of punks.' Thats ********, even if it is true. Its not relevant at all to selling records. Times change and styles change. I agree with Rolling Stone magazine when they said the Sex Pistols were as compelling in their own time as Elvis was in his; its not even about your personal taste (which obviously does not tend towards punk).. jesus, times and styles change! Its as simple as that. Rap would have died a quick death in the 60's, but look what it did to the 90's. Imagine all those poor poor soul singers that were swept under the carpet because of rap

 

[kelly]

Uhm FYI - when I use the word punk, I generally mean a genre of music I like which would include Black Flagg, Sex Pistols, Dead Kenedies, etc. Though I did probably intend to insult your favorite band, the insult was that Kurt intended to be punk and ended up being pop.

I don't recall comparing them to the Beatles either. I'll save my Beatles rants for another thread.

Kelly

 

[M Rael]

Quote:

Originally posted by kelly Though I did probably intend to insult your favorite band

? To quote your friend Kurt Cobain, 'I'm so ugly, but thats ok cause so are you' But no, I dont have a favorite band. But you're much younger than me though.. do you have one? I used the Beatles (without your permission) as an example of a band that dominated popular music for years, at the expense of other 'artists' uh, less successful businessmen, just as you said Nirvana started an avalanche that dominated the charts to the disadvantage of other less successful artists, uh businessmen. I thought the analogy was obvious. The point again is that market domination, by a group or genre, has happened many times before and is nothing new, and it always forces out practitioners of less 'popular' forms.
But I hope you dont think I give a crap if you like Nirvana or not! Now that would be funny.

 

[stymie miasma]

Quote:

Originally posted by redshifter "muddy & thin" huh? i guess i see what you mean. i still like the way the drums sound on it though. is "controversial personality" a euphemism for *********?

Hehe...I have to say I quite like the sound Steve Albini gets when he is twiddling the nobs. As Redshifter pointed out, he really gets a huge drum sound that feels very 'live'. I agree that his sound is not for everyone - it is quite aggressive (I wonder what he thinks of Grado headphones??). The work he did with PJ Harvey (Rid of me) and The Jesus Lizard (Goat, Liar) as well as In Utero are testament to this - aggressive, angry and dangerous music. I don't agree with the muddy comment, and I think the space and room ambience he gets in his recordings is maybe what you percieve as thinness? I dunno...horses for courses

This probably should go in the "Best Concerts" thread, but when I saw Shellac (Albini's band) play in support of Fugazi some years ago (just prior to the release of "Action Park"), I was completely floored by the visceral power and dynamic that a 3-piece could produce. So staggered was I, that 3 songs into Fugazi I had to leave - Fugazi were rendered completely impotent by Albini and colleagues.

 

[grinch]

Quote:

Originally posted by M Rael Oh thats just hilarious.. I dont know if it IS true, but it really sounds true. I laughed out loud when I read that characterization of Cobain. I was totally sorry to see him go though. What a mess.

i think that's a really sorry thing to say. if you've ever read cobain's suicide note and have any respect/pity for people who have committed suicide, i would hope that you wouldn't say something like that.

what markl said:
"Based on what I've read, Kurt and the band loved the way Nevermind came out, until they became suddenly popular and he freaked and started to question everything he stood for."
is definitely true. search on google or something and read his suicide note.

and as for the little debate going on whether on not cobain's death was a conspiracy, blah. just blah. i'm happy he pushed the nineties into the lands of grunge. if he hadn't, i probably would've been listening to country or rap for the days of my mispent youth.

next, for people who debate over who changed what, and other artists were swept under the carpet, and blah blah blah. if you're into a band that only wants to make money, they're going to suck. and if you only listen to a band because it's on the radio, 99% of the time, they suck too. i cannot listen to the radio for more than thirty seconds at a time now. i will no longer let the radio or music industry or some marketing exec choose what music i want to listen to. that's why i like independent record labels. i've seen so many bands live that struggle to make $100 per show, and they make all the stuff on the radio sound like what it is: CRAP. so if you want to whine and cry about what direction the music industry went, do it all you want.. just know that you're arguing for something that is not in control by one person and you're being very unoriginal..

sorry to get off this thread's subject.. but if it's any consolation, markl rules

 

[M Rael]

Quote:

Originally posted by grinch i think that's a really sorry thing to say. if you've ever read cobain's suicide note and have any respect/pity for people who have committed suicide, i would hope that you wouldn't say something like that.

I just finished saying I was sorry to see him go right? Whats your problem? Look, if he wanted to acheive stardom and then couldnt handle it when he got it then thats tough! Nobody forced him into that lifestyle. Maybe if he and Courtney didnt have such a smack habit they might have viewed the human experience a little differently. I feel more sympathy with the thousands that die every day hungry, alone, and poor than with a wealthy drug-using musician who would rather split than hang around. Screw him.. and Elvis!

 

[joelongwood]

Quote:

I feel more sympathy with the thousands that die every day hungry, alone, and poor than with a wealthy drug-using musician who would rather split than hang around. Screw him.. and Elvis!

Well said, Mark. But you forgot to add........"and the horse they rode in on."

 

[markl]

"but if it's any consolation, markl rules"

I guess someone received his little blue toaster oven

. Enjoy!

markl

 

[redshifter]

hi stymie,

your kermit avatars crack me up.

i wonder what "in utero" sounded like before they remastered the vocals?