[goto2003]

In addition to the aspects people here have described, I noticed Zhaolu DAC1.3 has it's receiver and DAC chips on the bottom of the PCB, most DAC's I have seen so far have receiver/DAC chips on the same side of amp and power regulation circurts. which seems to be a great idea. Besides, its pcb is a actually a quite simple design, again, a good philosophy to me as well. Hope mine be here in a few days, then I can tell whether it's a hyper or what.

 

[shplorgh]

Quote:

Originally Posted by goto2003 In addition to the aspects people here have described, I noticed Zhaolu DAC1.3 has it's receiver and DAC chips on the bottom of the PCB, most DAC's I have seen so far have receiver/DAC chips on the same side of amp and power regulation circurts. which seems to be a great idea. Besides, its pcb is a actually a quite simple design, again, a good philosophy to me as well. Hope mine be here in a few days, then I can tell whether it's a hyper or what.

Dude that's not gonna make any difference, it's for size...

 

[granodemostasa]

fine fine, but at some point there is a quality difference between dacs. right now i'm trying to decide between the modded zhaolu and the baby DO2, both of which seem better than the M-Audio Audiophile USB....but i may be wrong and I may just be a matter of preference...fine. I've heard the benchmark, i've heard the esoteric and i have my M-Audio; there is a major difference between those combinations, it's not just perception.
okay, maybe my comparisons don't follow too well, it's a 99 dollar sound card against a 1000 dollar DAC against a 7000 dollar DAC and one would expect a noticable sound difference.
my post was meant to ask what the line up is between those dacs mentioned earlier, not to attack the benchmark, it's a great dac and i'd love to have one.

 

[applebook]

Yeah, this is definitely a case of different priorities and tastes. For some with really good transports, and for those who don't want upsampling, and for other reasons, the DAC1 and many of its counterparts are not the best choices. For me, jitter rejection is very important, and with my cheap iMac's optical out > bargain toslink cable > DAC1, I get outstanding jitter rejection that's as good as it gets at any price, so I don't have to fuss over mid-range coloration and artifacts that are so prevalent on jitter-prone sources. What some might preceive as a more fully-bodied mid-range, to me, is coloration.

Some here don't like the DAC1's treble, and I can certainly understand why. The DAC was designed for engineers who want brutal accuracy. I tend to side with many mastering engineers in believing that the DAC1's treble is just revealing the material, not etched or majorly colored. During the a mini-meet in Cal (?) earlier last year, EdWood and others chose the DAC1 over the Bel Canto 2 because some felt that the DAC1 "effortlessly" rendered highs that the DAC2 couldn't match.

Again, different strokes for different folks is the old cliche that applies here.

 

[kocsu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by applebook I'd absolutely shocked if the Zhalou can even come close to the DAC1's jitter rejection. We're all still waiting to see where the 120db S/N ratio number comes from as well.

I found the 120dB S/N coming from the spec sheet of AKM´s DAC chip AK4393, mentioned as the chip used in Zhaolu version D1.2 24-bit/96 KHz listed in this page http://www.zhaolu.com/products/d1.x/1.x/D1.x.htm

"AK4393 Advanced bulti-bit 96kHz 24-Bit delta-sigma DAC
The AK4393 is a high performance stereo DAC for the 96KHz sampling mode of DAC, DVD including a 24bit digital filter. The AK 4393 introduces the advanced bulti-bit system for delta-sigma modulator. This new architecture achieves the wider dynamic range, while keeping much the same superior distortion characteristics as conventional single-bit way. In the AK4393, the analog outputs are filtered in the analog domain by switched-capacitor filter (SCF) with high tolerance to clock jitter. The analog outputs are full differenctial output, so the device is suitable for hi-end applications. The operating voltages support analog 5V and digital 3.3.V, so it´s easy to I/F with 3.3V logic IC"
FEATURES
128x oversampling
sampling rate up to 108KHz
24bit 8x digital filter
Ripple: 0.005dB, attenuation: 75dB
high tolerance to clock jitter
THD+N: -100dB
DR, S/N: 120dB
etc.. "

hope it helps..my 2 cents

 

[spyder187]

Quote:

Originally Posted by uzziah the only people that should be stating which is better are those who have ACTUALLY HEARD THEM. sour grapes is right. why is it that every dac1 user comes trying to defend their dac like crazy? you haven't heard the zhaolu, so maybe you'd forgive me if i asked y'all to quit whining.

Buddy, I never was defending the unit. I was more so just stating a more generalized opinion, concern, whatever. I just recently got the DAC-1 so currently my opinions on the sound of it aren't final. All I'm doing now is seeing whether the DAC integrates well into my speaker/headphone setup. It's something to tide me over the period where I won't have a headphone amp plus it does sound yummy in a sort of clean, neutral sounding way through the K701's. It's also something for me to see whether I'll like for the long term.

I will agree that I should go out and hear all the DAC's but this should be in the ideal environment, ie a quiet one where I could spend some time with each DAC and actually come out with a serious comparison. This would entail having them at home for quite a while.

And hey telling fellow forum members who are adding their 2 cents to quit whining doesn't bode well in your attempt to hype up the Zhaolu. As a rule, never pick on fellow members in efforts to strengthen your argument.

Other than that, hopefully I will hear the famous Zhaolu one day.

 

[lan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by granodemostasa fine fine, but at some point there is a quality difference between dacs. right now i'm trying to decide between the modded zhaolu and the baby DO2, both of which seem better than the M-Audio Audiophile USB....but i may be wrong and I may just be a matter of preference...fine.

Well sonically speaking generally, non overasmpling like DO2 may give you better tone, bass, and warmer sound. Zhaolu will give you more soundstage, imaging, and spaciality. Detail wise, a 24bit DAC should be able to give you more. The 24bit factor may come into play if you do more than listen to 16bit music. e.g. watch movies, play games on computer, have hdtv box, or whatever other >16bit data maybe coming into the DAC.

 

[uzziah]

Quote:

Originally Posted by spyder187 Buddy, I never was defending the unit. I was more so just stating a more generalized opinion, concern, whatever. I just recently got the DAC-1 so currently my opinions on the sound of it aren't final. All I'm doing now is seeing whether the DAC integrates well into my speaker/headphone setup. It's something to tide me over the period where I won't have a headphone amp plus it does sound yummy in a sort of clean, neutral sounding way through the K701's. It's also something for me to see whether I'll like for the long term. I will agree that I should go out and hear all the DAC's but this should be in the ideal environment, ie a quiet one where I could spend some time with each DAC and actually come out with a serious comparison. This would entail having them at home for quite a while. And hey telling fellow forum members who are adding their 2 cents to quit whining doesn't bode well in your attempt to hype up the Zhaolu. As a rule, never pick on fellow members in efforts to strengthen your argument. Other than that, hopefully I will hear the famous Zhaolu one day.

i have no desire to hype the zhaolu. the whining has been masked but is clear when you see what people are defending what (they're own gear they spent $$$ on). i guess i'm just pissed because OVER AND OVER AND OVER on headfi i see exagerated opinions from people for the only reason that they plopped down a lot of money on their gear. my comment was not meant to be towards you specifically.

i have an 0404, i guess i should clame that it "should be as good as a zhaolu" with headphones or some such nonsense to make me feel good about it. i do hope that the zhaolu is as good as it seems for the sole point that it is so affordable especially with the possible headamp upgrade. my budget is low and restrictive, and any dac, and especially dac/amp i could have that would be excellent for under $400 would just be lovely. anyway, to each his own. i think "use your own ears" should be the golden headfi moto.

pps: i also think the whole idea of "sidestepping in high-fidelity gear" is often another way to mask the issue of something trully being "better" than something else. it certainly makes some sense that this could be the case with gear of similar pricepoint, but i think lan made the critical point that the economy this dac is coming out of is just so different than our own western economies.

 

[Jahn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lan Well sonically speaking generally, non overasmpling like DO2 may give you better tone, bass, and warmer sound. Zhaolu will give you more soundstage, imaging, and spaciality. Detail wise, a 24bit DAC should be able to give you more. The 24bit factor may come into play if you do more than listen to 16bit music. e.g. watch movies, play games on computer, have hdtv box, or whatever other >16bit data maybe coming into the DAC.

those were my impressions when comparing the dac-ah vs the zhao, and i'm sure those are fundamental characteristics that won't alter with modding - it's just the nature of NOS vs. OS.

i'm a NOS guy myself.

 

[uzziah]

here's an odd question: is the zhaolu pronounced "zulu" like the african tribe? or is it "ZAO-Lu"?

 

[Gabe Logan]

I myself am not totally satified with the bass the Zhalou but i guess that can be explained by what lan just said.

So far i got less than 100 hours on it so there is hope i guess it will be more to my likeing.If not then the blackgate mod and some PS-1's will fit the bill

.

 

[applebook]

Quote:

Originally Posted by uzziah the whining has been masked but is clear when you see what people are defending what (they're own gear they spent $$$ on). i guess i'm just pissed because OVER AND OVER AND OVER on headfi i see exagerated opinions from people for the only reason that they plopped down a lot of money on their gear.

I find it humorous that you'd denigrate others as having "exagerated opinions" when the original posters on this thread, the main proponents of the Zhalou, have made nothing BUT hype and outrageous claims. I suppose that when Stereophile or other professionals make grand statements, they must be incorrect and are being paid off, but when completely anonymous posters on a public forum promulgate similar claims about another product (usually without much, if any, basis), it's ok.

Quote:

i have an 0404, i guess i should clame that it "should be as good as a zhaolu" with headphones or some such nonsense to make me feel good about it.

No, because that would be a baseless claim. DAC1 owners aren't the only ones who think that it's a great $1000 DAC.

Quote:

pps: i also think the whole idea of "sidestepping in high-fidelity gear" is often another way to mask the issue of something trully being "better" than something else. it certainly makes some sense that this could be the case with gear of similar pricepoint, but i think lan made the critical point that the economy this dac is coming out of is just so different than our own western economies.

This DAC has a very basic design and is as inexpensive as it gets for a full-featured DAC, so don't try to convince anyone that it will measure technically better than the two DACs that it's being compared against. It's an unfair and absurd comparison to begin with, but when the comparison is made, people have the entitlement to chime in. Even Ori expected that his comments would generate controversy, but for the most part, most replies have been civil. The only ones making attacks are you. I don't see DAC1 or Lavry owners doing the same even though much of this "review" is extremely subjective and is being taken as absolute truth.

When measurements for the Zhaolu comes out, I'll be stunned if it comes anywhere near the Lavry and DAC1 on many counts, but if it does, then skeptics will have serious reason to look into the DAC. I think that it's fair to be incredulous about a bargain basement DAC's measurable abilities.

 

[granodemostasa]

umm... i actually thought it was 24 bit on the D02, my output from the Audiophile USB is 24 bit, but i could reset it at 16... but all the output from my computer is that so watching movies shouldn't be too much of a concern.
rant:
You guys suck.... now i'm gonna have to find all the differences between NOS and OS.... Classical fans, would like you advice on the issue please.
ummm... slowly that VDA-2 is comming back into the race.... should i start a whole new thread on this? seems like too much of a side step from the modded Zhaolu discussion.

 

[JJ15k]

Hm, where can I find measurements on the DAC1 and lavry?
On another note, applebook you say "inexpensive as it gets", I don t think this has much meaning here since most audio gear is way overpriced and margins are very high compared to other technical segments (like computers, although they arguably use lower quality parts). Otherwise not contesting your post

 

[lan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jahn those were my impressions when comparing the dac-ah vs the zhao, and i'm sure those are fundamental characteristics that won't alter with modding - it's just the nature of NOS vs. OS.

Parts selection changes the sound quite a bit generally speaking. You really can tailor things however you like it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gabe Logan I myself am not totally satified with the bass the Zhalou but i guess that can be explained by what lan just said. So far i got less than 100 hours on it so there is hope i guess it will be more to my likeing.If not then the blackgate mod and some PS-1's will fit the bill .

When I put on my critical listening hat, IMO bass on a lot of sources aren't very good. So I wouldn't sweat too much about it. Yes you can add other things in yoru chain to make what you got pleasurable though.

Blackgates in general (IMO) may make the sound warmish. Depends which ones are used. Which ones are they going to put in FK, standard, N? it's not red so can't be N.

Quote:

Originally Posted by applebook This DAC has a very basic design and is as inexpensive as it gets for a full-featured DAC, so don't try to convince anyone that it will measure technically better than the two DACs that it's being compared against. When measurements for the Zhaolu comes out, I'll be stunned if it comes anywhere near the Lavry and DAC1 on many counts, but if it does, then skeptics will have serious reason to look into the DAC. I think that it's fair to be incredulous about a bargain basement DAC's measurable abilities.

Measurements aren't everything. Basic design doesn't mean it's bad. TO some simplicity is the key to better more natural sound.

Actually "added complexity" is one of the things I don't like about the DAC1. THe asynchronous resampler chip (which is the heart of it's jitter reduction) makes it's own sonic signature. In my trials of modding it, enhancing the power to this chip changed the sound quite a bit.

Zhaolu has better parts and so does D02. To me better parts or parts selection are key in getting excellent sound. A better design is also another way but I believe DAC1 is just a complicated simple design.