Clarification: CD3000, UE-10 and ProPhonic 2X-S comparisons

Jul 19, 2004 at 6:30 PM Post #31 of 64
As discussed, lindrone... that's KPOT's misguided opinion. I can't speak from a point of authority as I own neither the UE's or Sensas. With his sources (and level of experience?), he's unlikely to be able to tell a massive difference in any case. Why not just leave him to it?
 
Jul 19, 2004 at 6:37 PM Post #32 of 64
bangraman, please don't kill yourself with lindrone's **** when you will next time lick up his ass
biggrin.gif
biggrin.gif
biggrin.gif
biggrin.gif
biggrin.gif

Are you God to tell about my sources? I've only showed my portable sources.
 
Jul 19, 2004 at 6:38 PM Post #33 of 64
Quote:

Originally Posted by KPOT
You are living in the world of your illusions. If you think the truth is idiotic, then i'll discuss no more.


Evidently [read in best Bela Lugosi voice] we're all living in a world of e-luuusions. Did like the 'opinion and truth are different things. There are technical characteristics that concerns actual state of affairs' and 'I can tell you frequency response of phones without any measurement, but with perfect instrument - my ears!' lines though!

EDIT: Oh, and witty comeback there KPOT. You're gonna get along here fine.
rolleyes.gif
 
Jul 19, 2004 at 6:43 PM Post #34 of 64
blessingx, if you wanted to see, you would see. I wrote about my ears cause lindrone said that he couldn't distinguish flat and curved frequency response...
 
Jul 19, 2004 at 6:43 PM Post #35 of 64
Aehm... I just want to separate what I said from Kpot now... I would have liked a civilized discussion... Lindrone... at the worst, answer my last post by PM.
 
Jul 19, 2004 at 6:54 PM Post #37 of 64
KPOT, just curious, what other headphones besides the UE-10's have you heard that you would consider great?
 
Jul 19, 2004 at 7:16 PM Post #39 of 64
Quote:

Originally Posted by KPOT
bangraman, please don't kill yourself with lindrone's **** when you will next time lick up his ass
biggrin.gif
biggrin.gif
biggrin.gif
biggrin.gif
biggrin.gif



Any mod please could stop this absurd discussion, and unnecessary offenses...an opinion is never wrong, is just that an opinion, everysingle person in the world is entitled to his own BTW, is that so hard to understand????
 
Jul 19, 2004 at 7:20 PM Post #40 of 64
Quote:

Originally Posted by KPOT
Stax sr-007
grado ps-1
i'm lazy to remember more phones. But these two are really GREAT.



Read this review here:

http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showt...threadid=41442

Someone who has owned the Stax SR-007 for 4 years. Not even mentioning the long history of audiophile experience of the individual in question. Here's a direct quote from that review:

Quote:

Sidetrack: To be sure, tonal neutrality is a complex issue for headphones because almost all headphones are voiced for what is called “diffuse field equalization”. Due to complexities in the coupling between earcup and ears, specific tonal adjustments have to be introduced for a
headphone to sound tonally neutral. A headphone with a ruler-flat frequency response would sound awful. But I can swear there does not seem to be a single consistent execution of diffuse field equalization, because I observe that almost all headphones purporting to be diffuse field equalized sound so tonally different from each other.


(I bolded the most important sentence out of that block of text as part of my refute, of course, other parts of that review is a great read as well)

Anyway, I'll get to the rest of the discussion with gorman a little bit later... just that response for now.
 
Jul 19, 2004 at 7:22 PM Post #42 of 64
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sovkiller
Any mod please could stop this absurd discussion, and unnecessary offenses...an opinion is never wrong, is just that an opinion, everysingle person in the world is entitled to his own BTW, is that so hard to understand????


If you click the "Report Bad Post" icon to report a bad post the mods will most likely ignore it. Pretty futile eh !!
 
Jul 19, 2004 at 7:33 PM Post #43 of 64
Quote:

Originally Posted by penbat
If you click the "Report Bad Post" icon to report a bad post the mods will most likely ignore it. Pretty futile eh !!


They are taking the lunch break now...LOL....
biggrin.gif
biggrin.gif
biggrin.gif
 
Jul 19, 2004 at 8:42 PM Post #44 of 64
Quote:

Originally Posted by gorman
A sound at 58dB is perfectly audible, unless you have hearing damage. And it may well be that the sound engineer that mastered that particular CD was using equipment with a -12dB response at that frequency. In that case, the more faithful reproduction is that with the -12dB response.


Indeed, a very good point. That goes even more to making the case that flat curve doesn't necessarily matter though, doesn't it? If you can get a good audible detail along with some coloration that you personally would prefer one way or another, does having a flat curve really matter?

I think another consideration is that no recording is really mixed with flat curve in mind. Given how few audio equipment out there is flat, a flat curved reproduction equipment is not what the recording are mastered for. If everyone had equipments are that essentially flat, and all recordings were mastered to that, then of course a flat curve will preserve probably is the most faithful rendition of the music itself. That's just not the case though.

Now, to get even further into discussion on why curves means very little to how a particular equipment sounds. Curves are simply measured by using test tones.. it basically tells you what the volume of a particular tone is across the entire spectrum. It does not take in account all the other aspects of sound except for producing a tone.

It does not measure decay, pacing, reverberation, warmth, soundstage, sound imaging, or any of the characteristics that's crucial into making good audio equipments.

It does not tell you that UE-10 looks like it has a more enhanced bass when it's just producing a singular tone, but the lack of a sufficient decay makes the bass much leaner and less satisfying than the bass that 2X-S produces. It also doesn't tell you that even though with the test tone, the bass seems to be mighty fine, with a reduction in volume, UE-10's bass falls off dramatically faster in comparison with some other headphones. Which means you have to crank the UE-10 up to a higher volume level before a satisfying bass is achieved.

Frequency response chart is a very, very small part of the overall equation towards the evaluation of a headphone. Not to mention the different measuring methods that can screw up the test. Especially with IEM's, difference in the ear canal shape of the dummy head can dramatically change the test results. However, the results will probably not be dramatic to us, as our perception of overall sound should be pretty consistent. When measured with a machine though, the curve will look drastically different, won't it?

For example, if my ear hears 60db versus 65db... hmm.. there is a difference, but the overall sound impression doesn't change that dramatically. When a microphone measures 60db versus 65db... omg... look at how the curve on the chart just fluctuated.

What if Ultimate Ear's testing method isn't really the most optimal way to conduct those tests? Who can say their dummy head is the most accurate as opposed to another dummy head? What is an acceptible, universal testing parameter? If Ultimate Ear's testing method is a little bit off... say.. by a few mm of difference inside the ear canal, then what have they been calibrating their earphones to this whole time?

A lot of reviewers and magazines do not use frequency response chart in their evaluation of a particular audio equipment. The testing methods and such are just too much in flux in itself. Frequency response chart can be helpful in identifying a particular flaw or characteristic you've heard from a particular equipment, but only after you've heard it first. It cannot be used the other way around to judge the qualification of a particular piece of equipment; it's equivalent to judging the usefulness of a book by looking at its glossary.
 
Jul 19, 2004 at 9:52 PM Post #45 of 64
Lindrone has pretty well said everything I wanted to say. So, I'll just add a bit.

1. Every ear modifies/filters the sound coming in, as does your entire head.

2. Everbody's ears/heads are somewhat different. This will affect fit/seal/sound signature.

3. As mentioned before, not all music is made to sound good on flat-response monitors. Some artists/producers aim to please the living room listener, some aim for the boombox crowd, some have people with headphones in mind, and some are trying to keep Friday night cruisers bouncing and buzzing down the drag.

Just for those interested, here's what the Ety folk have to say about it.
http://www.etymotic.com/ephp/er4-ts.asp
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top