Cig's TOTL Headphone Comparisons
- Thread starter Ciggavelli
- Start date
Synergy is everything in this hobby.
I wouldn't expect unique tuning like the VC's to sound killer on every setup, but once you find that synergy they really come into their own. I don't hear any of the faults previously mentioned with my VC's, but then again I have spent the last 2 years building a system around them.
I will be picking up a pair of AC and CC eventually, but I am not looking to replace my VC. I am just looking for different flavors of ZMF awesomeness to keep things fresh.
Got to love this hobby!
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Or perhaps if you can't find synergy and build systems to bring out the best of the gear, you might not be experienced enough.
There is always more to the story. . .
Definitely keen to hear your eventual impressions on the AC. No interest in the Caldera open?Synergy is everything in this hobby.
I wouldn't expect unique tuning like the VC's to sound killer on every setup, but once you find that synergy they really come into their own. I don't hear any of the faults previously mentioned with my VC's, but then again I have spent the last 2 years building a system around them.
I will be picking up a pair of AC and CC eventually, but I am not looking to replace my VC. I am just looking for different flavors of ZMF awesomeness to keep things fresh.
Got to love this hobby!
number1sixerfan
Headphoneus Supremus
The VC is a fun headphone, but it definitely has a midrange veil compared to the absolute TOTL headphones out there. That's why I moved away from them, but at the same time their price point is lower than the other headphones I compared them to (Utopia, Susvara, TC), so I don't really get the cost/performance complaints I see sometimes. I don't see them as an absolute TOTL competitor, although they do some things well and other ZMF models since then, particularly the Caldera, do compete at that level.
I am a closed guy, so I am going to go for the Caldera Closed once released.
eskamobob1
Headphoneus Supremus
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Or perhaps if you can't find synergy and build systems to bring out the best of the gear, you might not be experienced enough.
There is always more to the story. . .
I've tried at least a dozen highly recommended VC setups. It's exactly my level of experience that makes me judge them so harshly, not the other way around. Someone not liking the same can as you do doesn't make you somehow superior or wiser than them. People are allowed to like different stuff and its not even like a single one of my complaints is anything new. They are all complaints peopel have expressed since day 1. If the issues don't bug you, that's totaly cool, but they obviously bug more people than just me.
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I'm about to sell my estat setup, but I will leave some impressions before they are gone.
Shang Sr: The absolute best at resolution. It's even higher than the SR1a. The soundstage is very high, almost too high. It's unrealistic in my opinion. If you visualize drum sets in your head, the Shang will have high-hats and cymbals way too high. It's a cool effect though. I'd imagine if you don't visualize music like I do, you would actually like the very high sound stage. The width is good, nothing to complain about. Mids are marvelous. Bass is a problem. There is some sub-bass when I do headphone track tests, but it is very minimal. It's hard to hear the sub-bass when the rest of the sounds are going. I've tried the Shang off of the T2 as well, and there is still the bass problem. The resolution is just so high though, and it is the reason why so many people like the Shang Sr. I never thought there could be such high resolution in a headphone. I had the SR1a before the Shang, and I thought, this is as high of a resolution as you can go. I was wrong. The Shang is just absolutely fantastic with resolution and realism. If you are a treble-head or a resolution person, there is nothing beating the Shang Sr.
X9K: High resolution, but not Shang Sr high. It is a laid back sound, similar to the Susvaras. I know many people think the Shang Sr is a more evolved Susvara, but I disagree. I think, the X9K is a more evolved Susvara. The soundstage is realistic. I have no complaints about that. The bass and sub-bass is better than the Shang. I'm actually pretty happy with the bass on the X9K. It's not planar or dynamic levels, but it is very good for an estat. It could be a good all-arounder. I could actually listen to all genres with the X9K and not be disappointed. Yes, the Shang has higher resolution, but the Shang can't do metal and rap like the X9K can. Now, if I was listening to a rap album, the X9K wouldn't be my first choice (I'd pick a planar or dynamic), but if you only listen to estats, the X9K can do rap.
CRBN: This is an interesting pair of headphones. The sound is veiled, but the bass is very good. It's even better than the X9K. The CRBN is the estat most similar to planars. It's actually a good pair of headphones, but I don't listen to them much. If you want bass, the CRBN is probably the best estat for that you can buy. The tone is actually pretty addictive. Audeze knows how to make headphones that have good tone. You can listen to all genres with this pair of headphones. No, it's not planar levels of bass, but it is very good for an estat. This is the pair of estat headphones you would listen to if you want to rock out with some metal. Rap is adequate, but still, it wouldn't be my first choice, as planars do rap much better
007Mk1: I actually like the 007 Mk1 a lot. If the X9K is a more evolved Susvara, the 007 mk1 is a more evolved CRBN (which is hilarious, as the 007 mk1 is many years older than the CRBN). The tone on these things is really good. The bass is even better than the CRBN. I say that, but planars and dynamics have better bass, obviously. I think every estat fan should own the 007 Mk1. It's a really good pair of headphones for the price (around $1750). I can see why some have the 007mk1 as their favorite estat. They are hard to drive, but my 3ES Elite has no problems with it. I'd say the 007 mk1 is as hard to drive as the Shang Sr, maybe even more. You need a good amp for these headphones.
Ranking:
I'm ranking the Shang Sr as number 1, because the resolution is absolutely breath taking. I'd go with the X9k second. It's just as great all around pair of headphones. It is very impressive. If it had Shang Sr resolution, it would easily be number 1. Next, I'm going with the 007 mk1. It's also a great all around pair of headphones. It surprised me with how good it sounds being so old. I typically think newer is better, but that's not the case with the 007 mk1. Sometimes older sh!t is better, and the 007 mk1 taught me that. Highly recommended. But it doesn't have the resolution of the X9k or Shang. It's tone might be better. I have a hard time evaluating timbre, as I don't ideologically think there is a standard timbre, but I'd image the 007 mk1 has really good timbre, if that is your thing. The CRBN is a good pair of headphones. It is a great all around-er, but it's just not as good overall as my other estats. Saying that, I could easily imagine somebody only having the CRBN and being happy. It plays modern music very well, and even better than some of my other headphones. My original pair of CRBNs had the "Stax fart" issue, but after sending them in and getting a replacement, the "Stax fart" is gone. Now, I will say, the Audeze customer support was not good when I was trying to get my CRBN fixed. They originally didn't want to fix it at all. I had to make a public post on head-fi before they would help me out. They did eventually fix my CRBN, but I thought it was odd I had to publicly call them out before they did that. Still, they fixed my issue, so they should be commended for that.
Conclusion:
All in all, estats have been fun for me. I'm glad I tried them out, as I always wanted to. Still, I'm going to sell them off and focus only on planars and dynamics. I do have both of the ribbon headphones, so I have resolution down when I want it. But, for the genres I listen to, planars and dynamics are simply better than estats. I like metal and rap. I need bass and sub-bass. Estats simply can't do it as well. I tried very hard to like estats, but I feel I was trying to force a square into a circle. I was always trying to find a way to increase the Shang Sr sub-bass, but it was not possible, even with the fabled T2. Estats simply can't provide the bass I want when listening to my favorite albums. Now, if you are into less bass heavy genres, like classical or jazz, you would probably love estats. The resolution they provided is unrivaled. If you want realism, you can't beat an estat. But, for me it's not working. It is what it is
Shang Sr: The absolute best at resolution. It's even higher than the SR1a. The soundstage is very high, almost too high. It's unrealistic in my opinion. If you visualize drum sets in your head, the Shang will have high-hats and cymbals way too high. It's a cool effect though. I'd imagine if you don't visualize music like I do, you would actually like the very high sound stage. The width is good, nothing to complain about. Mids are marvelous. Bass is a problem. There is some sub-bass when I do headphone track tests, but it is very minimal. It's hard to hear the sub-bass when the rest of the sounds are going. I've tried the Shang off of the T2 as well, and there is still the bass problem. The resolution is just so high though, and it is the reason why so many people like the Shang Sr. I never thought there could be such high resolution in a headphone. I had the SR1a before the Shang, and I thought, this is as high of a resolution as you can go. I was wrong. The Shang is just absolutely fantastic with resolution and realism. If you are a treble-head or a resolution person, there is nothing beating the Shang Sr.
X9K: High resolution, but not Shang Sr high. It is a laid back sound, similar to the Susvaras. I know many people think the Shang Sr is a more evolved Susvara, but I disagree. I think, the X9K is a more evolved Susvara. The soundstage is realistic. I have no complaints about that. The bass and sub-bass is better than the Shang. I'm actually pretty happy with the bass on the X9K. It's not planar or dynamic levels, but it is very good for an estat. It could be a good all-arounder. I could actually listen to all genres with the X9K and not be disappointed. Yes, the Shang has higher resolution, but the Shang can't do metal and rap like the X9K can. Now, if I was listening to a rap album, the X9K wouldn't be my first choice (I'd pick a planar or dynamic), but if you only listen to estats, the X9K can do rap.
CRBN: This is an interesting pair of headphones. The sound is veiled, but the bass is very good. It's even better than the X9K. The CRBN is the estat most similar to planars. It's actually a good pair of headphones, but I don't listen to them much. If you want bass, the CRBN is probably the best estat for that you can buy. The tone is actually pretty addictive. Audeze knows how to make headphones that have good tone. You can listen to all genres with this pair of headphones. No, it's not planar levels of bass, but it is very good for an estat. This is the pair of estat headphones you would listen to if you want to rock out with some metal. Rap is adequate, but still, it wouldn't be my first choice, as planars do rap much better
007Mk1: I actually like the 007 Mk1 a lot. If the X9K is a more evolved Susvara, the 007 mk1 is a more evolved CRBN (which is hilarious, as the 007 mk1 is many years older than the CRBN). The tone on these things is really good. The bass is even better than the CRBN. I say that, but planars and dynamics have better bass, obviously. I think every estat fan should own the 007 Mk1. It's a really good pair of headphones for the price (around $1750). I can see why some have the 007mk1 as their favorite estat. They are hard to drive, but my 3ES Elite has no problems with it. I'd say the 007 mk1 is as hard to drive as the Shang Sr, maybe even more. You need a good amp for these headphones.
Ranking:
I'm ranking the Shang Sr as number 1, because the resolution is absolutely breath taking. I'd go with the X9k second. It's just as great all around pair of headphones. It is very impressive. If it had Shang Sr resolution, it would easily be number 1. Next, I'm going with the 007 mk1. It's also a great all around pair of headphones. It surprised me with how good it sounds being so old. I typically think newer is better, but that's not the case with the 007 mk1. Sometimes older sh!t is better, and the 007 mk1 taught me that. Highly recommended. But it doesn't have the resolution of the X9k or Shang. It's tone might be better. I have a hard time evaluating timbre, as I don't ideologically think there is a standard timbre, but I'd image the 007 mk1 has really good timbre, if that is your thing. The CRBN is a good pair of headphones. It is a great all around-er, but it's just not as good overall as my other estats. Saying that, I could easily imagine somebody only having the CRBN and being happy. It plays modern music very well, and even better than some of my other headphones. My original pair of CRBNs had the "Stax fart" issue, but after sending them in and getting a replacement, the "Stax fart" is gone. Now, I will say, the Audeze customer support was not good when I was trying to get my CRBN fixed. They originally didn't want to fix it at all. I had to make a public post on head-fi before they would help me out. They did eventually fix my CRBN, but I thought it was odd I had to publicly call them out before they did that. Still, they fixed my issue, so they should be commended for that.
Conclusion:
All in all, estats have been fun for me. I'm glad I tried them out, as I always wanted to. Still, I'm going to sell them off and focus only on planars and dynamics. I do have both of the ribbon headphones, so I have resolution down when I want it. But, for the genres I listen to, planars and dynamics are simply better than estats. I like metal and rap. I need bass and sub-bass. Estats simply can't do it as well. I tried very hard to like estats, but I feel I was trying to force a square into a circle. I was always trying to find a way to increase the Shang Sr sub-bass, but it was not possible, even with the fabled T2. Estats simply can't provide the bass I want when listening to my favorite albums. Now, if you are into less bass heavy genres, like classical or jazz, you would probably love estats. The resolution they provided is unrivaled. If you want realism, you can't beat an estat. But, for me it's not working. It is what it is
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I'm also trading my Utopia and Stealth away, so I'll give some impressions of them as well.
Utopia: A great all-around pair of headphones. I had 2 of the old versions and 1 of the 2022. I actually prefer the OG Utopias. They have better resolution and treble. The 2022 somehow dimmed the resolution in exchange for more bass. The bass on the 2022 is very good. It's not TC level, but it is more than adequate. Still, I don't really like the trade off. I like the sharp treble of the OGs. Now for tone, the 2022s are probably better. If I could only have the 2022s as my only pair of headphones, I would be happy. They are simply a great all-around pair of headphones. However, I'm fortunate enough to have better headphones like the Sus and TCs, but I think most people would be very happy with the 2022 Utopias. If I didn't have the TC or Sus, I'd probably listen to the 2022s much more. And they are so easy to drive. You don't need a nuclear reactor amp to enjoy them. They play fine off daps and even the GoBlu mini (which is an absolutely awesome device. It can even drive my TCs, but the volume has to be near max. The Blu Mini is amazing).
Stealth: These are the cleanest pair of headphones I've ever heard. They are so fukcing clean I don't know what to say. They do sub-bass amazingly and fit the Harmon Curve itch very well. They isolate pretty well too, and they were my go to headphones when my nieces and nephew are around. I really don't have any complaints about the Stealth. They do everything well, but they don't do anything exceptionally. That is the problem with the Stealths. They are great at everything, but not the master of anything. They would be a great pair of headphones if you only had to have one pair. However, if you collect headphones like I do, there are better headphones out there. They are simply redundant in my collection. Still, I would highly recommend them if you only have a few pairs of headphones in your collection. I just gotta say again, they are so fukcing clean. I've never heard a pair of headphone that were this clean. DCA hit it out of the park in that regard.
Utopia: A great all-around pair of headphones. I had 2 of the old versions and 1 of the 2022. I actually prefer the OG Utopias. They have better resolution and treble. The 2022 somehow dimmed the resolution in exchange for more bass. The bass on the 2022 is very good. It's not TC level, but it is more than adequate. Still, I don't really like the trade off. I like the sharp treble of the OGs. Now for tone, the 2022s are probably better. If I could only have the 2022s as my only pair of headphones, I would be happy. They are simply a great all-around pair of headphones. However, I'm fortunate enough to have better headphones like the Sus and TCs, but I think most people would be very happy with the 2022 Utopias. If I didn't have the TC or Sus, I'd probably listen to the 2022s much more. And they are so easy to drive. You don't need a nuclear reactor amp to enjoy them. They play fine off daps and even the GoBlu mini (which is an absolutely awesome device. It can even drive my TCs, but the volume has to be near max. The Blu Mini is amazing).
Stealth: These are the cleanest pair of headphones I've ever heard. They are so fukcing clean I don't know what to say. They do sub-bass amazingly and fit the Harmon Curve itch very well. They isolate pretty well too, and they were my go to headphones when my nieces and nephew are around. I really don't have any complaints about the Stealth. They do everything well, but they don't do anything exceptionally. That is the problem with the Stealths. They are great at everything, but not the master of anything. They would be a great pair of headphones if you only had to have one pair. However, if you collect headphones like I do, there are better headphones out there. They are simply redundant in my collection. Still, I would highly recommend them if you only have a few pairs of headphones in your collection. I just gotta say again, they are so fukcing clean. I've never heard a pair of headphone that were this clean. DCA hit it out of the park in that regard.
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I'm a little drunk, so sorry bear with me (and apologies for the multiple posts). So, I've been thinking about the ZMF house sound. In the past, I wasn't into it. It sounded veiled and colored, which I didn't particularly like. However, now I understand the ZMF sound. It is actually pretty amazing. I'm listening to my ACs, and I'm very happy. I see why ZMF has so many fans. The sound is veiled (though not as much with the Calderas), but the tone is amazing. They just have a great sound to them. If ZMF was a color, it would be brown, and I don't mean that in a bad way. They present the sound in such a way where it's not white like the Shang, but also not black like the TCs. They have a nice niche in the mixture of sounds, and they are fukcing beautiful too. 
Malcyg
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This made me chuckle. Most of my posts tend to be after consumption - and I often regret it later.
You have caused no offence, so don’t worry. 
Many years ago, as a speakers system man with a pair of HD800, I used to think that guys like you on here were nuts! Then I made the mistake of stepping up to Susvara and entered the mad world you live in. I now have 8 pairs of phones though, like you, probably will look to downscale now that I have learnt how it all works and what I like and why I like it.
What are you pairing the Susvara with ? Amp? DAC??
Malcyg
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Taiko Extreme>Lampizator Horizon>Wells Headtrip II Level II>Susvara
Overkill perhaps, but the front end was put together for my speaker system, not headphones, so it was a bonus extension into phones and it is the best sound I have ever heard through headphones - although all the top phones are capable of really very good results if paired correctly.
dynamic headphones
100+ Head-Fier
some people in this hobby don't visualise the music? i thought this was a very common thing to do for "people like us".
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I dunno about audiophiles specifically, but I talk about music with “normal” folks all the time, and most don’t visualize music. I use my hands and verbally paint a picture of a song in a 3D space for them with shapes, colors, etc., and they think I’m crazy and don’t understand…some people in this hobby don't visualise the music? i thought this was a very common thing to do for "people like us".
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