[584585]

Back in 2015 (Before my Chord Arc started), these were the Chord options:

Almost double the price for double the battery and some supercaps? Now, after experiencing Galvanic Isolation, I think the price difference is 75% Galvanic Isolation and 25% Supercaps. I always assumed it was 100% Supercaps before this past weekend. I underestimated the role Galvanic Isolation plays in this game.

If a Hugo₂TT and a Hugo₂ were available on sale at similar prices present day, would I pay $4800 for a modern Hugo₂TT versus procuring a Hugo₂? After experiencing Soundstage depth, yes. I'm addicted to the Gaming experience that it provides. When used prices for the Hugo₂ drops some more I like to have more independent Hugo₂s. Maybe build Hugo₂TT for the family, but again there's risk involved in running Supercaps so maybe no. It's just such a good value at used prices after unlocking Soundstage Depth.

I think I'm already there or at least close enough to start labeling my Hugo₂ a Hugo₂TT. Hopefully, in the Summer, my Hugo₂ will play nice with the Supercaps.

The Chord Hugo TT actually gives a roadmap on the potential of the Hugo₂ when you take away the need for portability.

It is 2023 May 31 and I received my second hand Chord Hugo TT. At the moment I have Chord Dave, and previously owner/listened : Mojo, Hugo 2, Qutest, TT2 solo and with M Scaler, Mojo2.

What I can say, is wow , how good Hugo TT sounds. It is warm , organic, with good bass, very good vocals, sirupy caramel mids and sound. Sound stage is huge also. Very musical presentation. I'm not sure if I prefer Dave, or Hugo TT, but those are best Chord DACS to this date. Hugo TT and Dave.

I was able to emulate "Sound stage is huge also". I not trying to best the DAVE. DAVE is reference. I just want to get closer to the DAVE at a fraction of the price. Plus, I would never listen to anything on Mains.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cho...c-amp-impressions-thread.756029/post-17583987

Although when my projects are complete, I don't think Hugo₂TT > HugoTT > HugoTT₂ is too far off. It will be at minimum, competitive with the Chord Big Boys.

Two additional things I've noticed in the short term of owning it:

1) The USB HD is the best sounding digital input on the unit which surprised me as I said earlier on previous DACs I've owned I preferred other inputs like Coax & AES (which the Chord does not have).

Galvanic Isolation

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cho...c-amp-impressions-thread.756029/post-16520624

I sold hugo2 and get Hugo TT (1st). Just do it! You will not regret.
Especially If soundstage deeps and balanced out is important for you.. oh and sharming, nicely extended bass..

Deep Soundstage unlocked in Hugo₂. It joins the company of the Chord Big Boys HugoTT, HugoTT₂ and DAVE. When you look at the roadmap of the HugoTT, it's an older Hugo₁ PCB so it makes sense a Hugo₂ PCB can also replicate this feature.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cho...c-amp-impressions-thread.756029/post-14851098

For me hugo2 was flat in compare to TT. This was the main reason i sold it. And Qutest as well... they just sound flat to me. More details and mids yes.. but if all this beauty sounds flat, i cant accept.

Here is how they sound to me..
Hugo2, Qutes on the left compare to TT on the right

The 10th row effect versus 1st row. Magnificient for the Gaming experience. Unlocking Soundstage Depth turns my world upside down as now I have to plan around this feature.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cho...c-amp-impressions-thread.756029/post-14851225

You won't be disappointed

I would argue that it's 'better' than TT2 and even Dave. (Yes I owned all of them, just saying from a time perspective)

Again, DAVE is reference so I don't know how you can 'better' reference. But for my use case, Hugo₂ with unlocked Soundstage Depth easily > HugoTT > HugoTT₂.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cho...c-amp-impressions-thread.756029/post-17820293

I feel that the TT was never really given the chance to shine in the marketplace, as on one side it was tooted as just being a pimped Hugo, which I guess it technically was. But that had a few people thinking it might not be such a sonic improvement over Hugo, which it most definitely was, even though the 'core' pcb remained the same. That extra motherboard it was attached to featured galvanic isolation of the USB input, plus extra space for another pair of batteries plus a pair of Supercaps made quite the difference, not to mention the far heavier chassis adding damping. On the other side, was the H2 and all the hype at the time that it was a 'mini Dave' which I think undercut the TT sales too. Then of course TT2 appeared sooner than many expected. Bottom line, TT is a sweet-spot DAC for many, and a huge bargain on the used market right now

HugoTT has the same 'core' pcb as the Hugo₁ PCB. Mentions Supercaps made quite the difference. I'll pass on the chassis although I do add some damping here and there. Maybe Vibrapods one day.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cho...c-amp-impressions-thread.756029/post-16514193

So I see an older PCB, four Enix Batteries and two Powerstor Aerogel Supercaps. Galvanic Isolation not visible. Roadmap is hidden in plain sight.

My backup plan is to use the same type of Supercaps as the HugoTT. The HugoTT has about 10 Farads total. I plan to use 100+X that amount of Farads with an updated version. The HugoTT₂ has about 60 Farads. I already have four 18650 batteries versus two 18650 on the Hugo₁ running on each side so it should be straightforward to plug supercaps in between the batteries and the Hugo₂.

But my long-term primary plan is to use about 6000 Farads on each side so about 12,000 Farads total as that is Pure Supercaps. No Batteries in the equation. Super, super, super low impedance for dynamic swings versus batteries which are just low impedance or batteries plus supercaps which is super low impedance.

 

[584585]

How much to mod my hugo2 for galvanic isolation? thx

I'll check back early Summer. I'm already out of energy. My Head-Fi prime was circa Y2K, so my knees are shot in this hobby.

The reason why I'm hesitant to recommend is I use "Formula One" performance products. It's difficult to just hand over the keys as there are a few safety precautions that need to be taken along with proper maintenance and common sense.

If I can think of a alternative safer route, I share over the Summer.

Since I live near one of the largest Earthquake faults in the world, I put these babies in low profile Battery Boxes with vents and straps. Unobtrusive on a desktop.

So for $500, you also get the best power supply in the world. It's pure Supercaps. The impedance, SQ, etc. is all derived directly from Supercaps, not third-party (Management Tasks). So it's pure objectivity, zero Marketing.

I do use a certified Hospital Grade SMPS with RFI filters like the Chord SMPS. This allows 24/7 operation and you can leave it be for 20 years without ever having to manage it once it's in production.

So this thing is quiet AF. The Supercaps act like a reservoir, it fluctuates and will automatically recharge. A Full Recharge with Mains takes 3 minutes, otherwise optical isolators cut off Mains access the majority of time. So technically it is Off Mains except when it needs some recharging. It's zero worries.

My USB optical cable is also USB certified:

So certified SMPS -> SuperCap Management System -> SuperCaps -> certified USB optical cable -> Chord DAC.

By being an intermediary power, the SuperCaps negate needing power from the source.

USB optical just adds to the pureness as all regular USB cables transmit RF. USB optical (DATA) decouples, zero RF. USB optical (PWR) runs a separate wire outside optical DATA. It decouples by being powered Off Mains by the Supercaps thus unlocking Galvanic Isolation.

I queried the Chord A.I. API:

Galvanic isolation requires a fair amount of power from the connected source unlike our standard input which requires no power. As Hugo 2 is a transportable product and more likely to be used with phones, tablets, DAPs and laptops which are also battery powered we did not want to cause extra drain on the battery inside the phone, laptop etc..
Also again as most USB sources are likely to be battery powered there is not such a need for Galvanic isolation as they are not connected to AC power which is a major contributor to line noise via USB.
We've left the Galvanic isolation in our larger products such as HugoTT and Dave which are dedicated desktop type products where it is more than likely they will be connected to AC powered sources.

So I run the purest Galvanic Isolation objectively possible. No AC, No BS.

But I really don't want the responsibility of handing the keys over to a "Formula One", but I'll think it over. I'll check back early Summer. I'm down to 1% energy levels.

These things are not toys, there's risk involved.

I plan to run a 4X4 like below to power the Hugo₂. 50/50 it will work. Since I love my Galvanic Isolation so much, I also plan to upgrade to a 4-pack over the Summer. Right now, I'm running a 2-pack 24/7 but by running a 4-pack it will cut the impedance in half. But impedance is like super, super, super low milliohms, but a little OCD wants to optimise performance.

I remember one of your post about powering a Raspberry Pi. With a 4-pack, you can power both the Raspberry Pi and a USB optical cable to justify your purchasing decision. Killing two birds with one stone. Since Supercaps are pure one-way power, you can share power to devices unlike traditional power supplies that feedback into the power supply this is one-way.

 

[584585]

Parting words until Summer:

1. Never procure Chord products that are not contracted by Rob Watts. I don't say anything negative as the cash flow funds Chord R&D.
2. Never use software upsamplers. Only use Rob Watts's algorithms.
3. Never use LPS. Think of the power supply as a Battery Charger not directly influencing powering a device. It's indirect. For example, on the Hugoᵀᵀ it's a 12V SMPS. Basically, it's a Battery Charger. It doesn't directly influence the DAC. Mojo₂ posters are even starting to use LPS. It's just a glorified Battery Charger without RF filters, it doesn't do anything directly for the DAC.

For #2 and #3, those introduce enormous amounts of anomalies that raise Noise Floor Modulation. It order to unlock Soundstage Depth, you have to eliminate all anomalies and lower Noise Floor Modulation. It took me 6 weeks of Brain Burn-in to unlock Soundstage Depth. Because I don't run software upsamplers and either on Battery and/or Supercaps, there zero anomalies so #2 or #3 doesn't apply much.

USB optical also helps as it decouples and eliminates all anomalies. If you have a regular USB cable plugged in the same time you run Toslink, you can get anomalies too. That is why there is a trend to unplug your regular USB cable before doing any serious listening with Toslink.

So I objectively have the only USB chain with zero super tiny anomalies that degrade SQ by decoupling with a USB optical cable powered by Supercaps.

My reference SQ point now is purely judged by Soundstage Depth. Might as well run a $4 Off-the-Shelf OEM DAC if you judge solely by Soundstage Width and Height.

When the Brain no longer registers the tiniest of anomalies, it unleases SQ atrributes such as Soundstage Depth. It took 6 weeks for my Brain to un-register these tiniest of anomalies for a fresh start. It doesn't happen overnight.

I'll check back in the Summer if I make further progress. There's no guarantee my Summer Project will work out.

 

[mbirand]

do i have to do something in particular other than selecting fixed voltage to use hugo2 as a dac ? i will be connecting it to my dedicated amp using rca and i was curious wouldnt i be double amping the signal ?

 

[kajetanjazz]

i was curious wouldnt i be double amping the signal ?

You will at all times. There is no amp section you can bypass

When turning on, hold the two right buttons (power button+crossfeed). It will set the volume for 3V line level

 

[mblain]

Back where I started: Hugo 2. Bought again for at least the 3rd time, maybe the 4th. I bought new this time and will be keeping until Hugo 3 comes out in 2032. Going toslink this time after my last 2Go experience. Lotoo PAW D1 for desktop and Lotoo PAW 5000MK2 for portable, with its dedicated toslink output. That's it; ending where I began.

How does the Lotoo PAW D1 sound with the Hugo 2? I was looking at it for a nice portable usb to coax but haven't seen any reviews or discussions.

 

[Nostoi]

How does the Lotoo PAW D1 sound with the Hugo 2? I was looking at it for a nice portable usb to coax but haven't seen any reviews or discussions.

I'm pretty happy with the combo. The D1 is pitch black silent and let's the Hugo 2 do its thing without interfering. It can also run DoP DSD rather than converting DSD to PCM, if you're a DSD user and want to stay native. Build is great, got a nice weight to it, and can work in a portable(ish) format (will be taking this combo on a 16 hour train trip over the weekend, so will try it out).

 

[mblain]

I'm pretty happy with the combo. The D1 is pitch black silent and let's the Hugo 2 do its thing without interfering. It can also run DoP DSD rather than converting DSD to PCM, if you're a DSD user and want to stay native. Build is great, got a nice weight to it, and can work in a portable(ish) format (will be taking this combo on a 16 hour train trip over the weekend, so will try it out).

Awesome! Good to hear. Do you notice an improvement over going directly over USB? I'm currently using the older ifi ilink with my Hugo 2 and Mojo 2 and I a nice bump in quality using COAX, but I'm looking for something smaller to carry around like the D1. I might have to bite the bullet and try it out.

 

[Nostoi]

Awesome! Good to hear. Do you notice an improvement over going directly over USB? I'm currently using the older ifi ilink with my Hugo 2 and Mojo 2 and I a nice bump in quality using COAX, but I'm looking for something smaller to carry around like the D1. I might have to bite the bullet and try it out.

There's an improvement, definitely - mostly in the blacker background and the elimination of RFI/EMI noise (on USB I can hear my laptop's CPU/GPU at work). More generally I just always lean toward TosLink - sounds cleaner and less glaring. Same also for Mojo 2.

 

[Infoseeker]

If you use the 2Go to play off it's microSD cards, that technically isolates the Hugo2 from the grid.

Without as many complications.

 

[Boldakov]

1. Never use software upsamplers. Only use Rob Watts's algorithms.
2. Never use LPS. Think of the power supply as a Battery Charger not directly

Basicaly you're right, but never say never.

1. I have crazy good implementation of HQPlayer and it definitely plays better than M-Scaler.

2. And I have good regenerative power plant and AC-cables fo kilo$s and great LPSs that plays better than any batteries I was able to test

But in some ordinary use cases when DAC connected directly to a regular PC your words are quite correct

 

[Boldakov]

Do you notice an improvement over going directly over USB?

There is no any problem in USB itself.
It only depends on quality of your source device. Any DDC will improve sound over the regular PC USB output — this is an axiom.

But USB is not a PC only. There are lots of purified USB sources. Say for example extremely "cheap" Antipodes OLADRA to caricaturize the picture — it has USB 2.0 that plays better than any coax normally you can find in a common audio world..

So the result strongly depends on two things:
1. Quality of your digital source
2. Quality of your digital cable

These two things are of utmost importance of the result compared to choosing the input type for Hugo 2.

In other words, no matter coax or usb or toslink. The only matter what you are plugging in those inputs.

​

 

[mbirand]

If you use the 2Go to play off it's microSD cards, that technically isolates the Hugo2 from the grid.

Without as many complications.

i went that route, and despite being unstable with wifi connection, its a simpler solution for me.

my only issue with it is that i cant play dsd512 files only lower.

 

[Infoseeker]

For replacement of the 18650 batteries, can I use new batteries with their own BMS? Or is it necessary to move the BMS of the old batteries to the new ones? (seems I need to move them to the new ones.)

Seems the CDR of the original batteries are so low, that I can get away with the maximum 3500mah capacity for this standardized size.

 

[miketlse]

For replacement of the 18650 batteries, can I use new batteries with their own BMS? Or is it necessary to move the BMS of the old batteries to the new ones?

Is it safe to use whatever is in a Ace Hardware store shelves (meant for flashlights)?
Or should I be more picky like getting a branded Samsung one online.

I think you are best to ask @Rob Watts who developed the intelligent desktop mode.