[Mr X]

the difference M Scaler make is hard to notice upfront, at beginning we feel just an subtle, however after using M Scaler for an while I bet it would difficult to live without it.

Totally this.

Sold mine that I’d been using with DAVE for the past year. I lasted 10 days without having to go out and source a replacement.

As the saying goes, you don’t know what you’ve got ‘till it’s gone!

This is just with stock BNC which I think now I’ll look to upgrade.

 

[CaptainFantastic]

Totally this.

Sold mine that I’d been using with DAVE for the past year. I lasted 10 days without having to go out and source a replacement.

As the saying goes, you don’t know what you’ve got ‘till it’s gone!

This is just with stock BNC which I think now I’ll look to upgrade.

But the M Scaler has a button that let's you "switch off" it's up-sampling at the touch of a button. Presumably you also tried that before selling it? As in, listen with M Scaler up-sampling enabled for a few months or a full year, then one day hit that button to hear the difference. Did you do that? What was the difference you heard?

 

[damdl]

But there is also an HQPlayer Embeded on the planet, that makes even more difference I suppose. And if we will keep in mind the cost of the dual bnc cables for the M-Scaler — it could be comparable even to HQPlayer Embeded with Farad ATX PSU.

But it' just an imho, so please do not get me wrong. M-Scaler is a great device, just not the panacea.

Agree…

the difference M Scaler make is hard to notice upfront, at beginning we feel just an subtle, however after using M Scaler for an while I bet it would difficult to live without it.

Had the same happen to me while using HQPlayer… Subtle but there is a difference in many things. Bass is more controlled, separation is better defined, it even makes my H2 sound clearer to me… and yes… the most noticiable thing is soundstage.

Fun fact, i notice this even more with IEM’s, specifically my CA Dorados.

I’m sure it’s not as well presented and executed as with MScaler, but I'm still 26 and can’t yet jump into Dave + MScaler levels just yet. One day.

 

[Widell]

I was listening to the TT2/HMS combo for a year with only max upsampling and then I accidentally without knowing it had set the HMS to bypass on the upsampling and I was going mad thinking something was wrong with Roon or my streamer until I realized the upsampling was off, it is a subtle but noticable difference, not in your face or night and day difference but sound is smoother more 3D and not tiring at all compared to no upsampling......if it is worth full retail price I am not sure, my streamer the Auralic Aries G1 also have built in upsampling, to about half what the HMS can do and it is also noticable difference with and without. I would if available pick one up used and listen to it for 6 month with max resolution and then switch it off! I would bet you would not sell it once you realized the benefit it gives. But as said it is at a high cost. And as always YMMV

 

[MarkParity]

This isn't an M-Scaler thread but I wouldn't be able to buy one based on ASR measurements. That said the Hugo 2 sounds good to me and that doesn't measure very well either.
Simply put, perhaps the distortion and noise makes the sound more analogue, M-scaler adds even more "analogue" too and obviously we like listening to distortion and noise here on Head-Fi.

 

[Kentajalli]

This isn't an M-Scaler thread but I wouldn't be able to buy one based on ASR measurements. That said the Hugo 2 sounds good to me and that doesn't measure very well either.
Simply put, perhaps the distortion and noise makes the sound more analogue, M-scaler adds even more "analogue" too and obviously we like listening to distortion and noise here on Head-Fi.

If you are an ASR reader, can you tell me which bit of Hugo2 does not measure well??
For your convenience, here is a link:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...hord-hugo-2-review-portable-dac-hp-amp.35812/
mScaler is a unique DSP, measuring its input/output does not tell you anything, you either hear what it does, or you don't! traditional lab measurements do not reveal anything.
Yes, it does have slight jitter and noise elevation, but that is in digital domain, what comes out of the final DAC is unaffected by those things.

 

[Widell]

This isn't an M-Scaler thread but I wouldn't be able to buy one based on ASR measurements. That said the Hugo 2 sounds good to me and that doesn't measure very well either.
Simply put, perhaps the distortion and noise makes the sound more analogue, M-scaler adds even more "analogue" too and obviously we like listening to distortion and noise here on Head-Fi.

Agree with you, I would not buy it either based on ASR review, but there is more to it than pure measurements. I previously loved ASR and what they do/did but after a while realized that as mentioned listening is also part of the equation, and also lets think about it, a Topping DAC which costs USD 100 which measures better than a USD 10K DAC should then sound better ?! I don't think so... please compare if you have the chance and you will soon find that listening will be the prevailing factor, at least I hope so, but that said, I am still glad there is sites like ASR to bring up the need for better quality measured "audiophool" equipment, as this, I do agree is a quality statement of the product that should not be neglected, but not necessarily a proof something actually sounds better...., luckily I bought my TT2/HMS combo b4 the review so I can honestly say I enjoy it immensely and would miss it if I did not have it in my chain, but it is a steep price and more of an add on while the TT2 is a major upgrade to eg. an Hugo 2 as I also have for travelling purpose...H2 and HMS work very well together as well but at half the upscaling potential.....

That said I believe that at its price point Topping is probably best you can get except maybe a Mojo or similar, this is a guess ass I have not listened to all the Topping dacs an so forth...

 

[jlbrach]

This isn't an M-Scaler thread but I wouldn't be able to buy one based on ASR measurements. That said the Hugo 2 sounds good to me and that doesn't measure very well either.
Simply put, perhaps the distortion and noise makes the sound more analogue, M-scaler adds even more "analogue" too and obviously we like listening to distortion and noise here on Head-Fi.

if you go by ASR one would only buy Topping products

 

[Mr X]

Totally this.


But the M Scaler has a button that let's you "switch off" it's up-sampling at the touch of a button. Presumably you also tried that before selling it? As in, listen with M Scaler up-sampling enabled for a few months or a full year, then one day hit that button to hear the difference. Did you do that? What was the difference you heard?

It’s a long story but had a cinema listening room makeover which meant a rack out of the room but keeping the Dave in the room and having to use a long RCA cable which my Trinnov didn’t like. So decided to sell Dave mScaler. Quickly realised errors of my way and took Dave out of classifieds but not before Mscaler had sold.

Have moved Dave to rack which is a shame (love how it looks) repurchased Mscaler and moved back to short XLR cables. Back to audio bliss

 

[MarkParity]

If you are an ASR reader, can you tell me which bit of Hugo2 does not measure well??
For your convenience, here is a link:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...hord-hugo-2-review-portable-dac-hp-amp.35812/
mScaler is a unique DSP, measuring its input/output does not tell you anything, you either hear what it does, or you don't! traditional lab measurements do not reveal anything.
Yes, it does have slight jitter and noise elevation, but that is in digital domain, what comes out of the final DAC is unaffected by those things.

Thank you for quoting the thread, its all there I won't bother to explain it.

if you go by ASR one would only buy Topping products

Yes, going purely by measurements 100% agree, Topping and and SMSL beat all the products on paper that we rave about over here on Head-fi but we say they sound sterile and uninteresting. There is nothing wrong with that opinion, as I said I guess we like listening to the "distortion" these products add to the digital music.

Most of the noise added by our preferred products is probably inaudible though so make of that what you want. The RME DAC products do measure well and sound good too so no need to buy Topping or SMSL, there other options.

I am currently listening to Daft Punk - RAM using my Hugo2 2Go though and I can assure you its going nowhere despite the need to keep it and the headphone cable away from the radiated noise emitted from my PC.

 

[Kentajalli]

That said the Hugo 2 sounds good to me and that doesn't measure very well either.

Once again, you said Hugo2 does NOT measure very well.
I am very familiar with the Hugo2 review on ASR. I can not find any area that Hugo2 didn't measure very well.
Perhaps , you could point me to it .

 

[MarkParity]

Once again, you said Hugo2 does NOT measure very well.
I am very familiar with the Hugo2 review on ASR. I can not find any area that Hugo2 didn't measure very well.
Perhaps , you could point me to it .

Indeed I saw you were very active on the thread on ASR defending the Hugo2, I'm honestly not trying to reproduce that content of that thread over here so its probably best for me to leave this here as my last reply, but you did ask.

I don't disagree, as I said the noise floor, distortion, jitter etc etc of the Hugo2 and M Scaler is well below the range of human hearing but going by the measurements does it really offer value for money, how many of the DAC's that beat it are cheaper?

Anyway, I think I've made my point, potential owners of Chord gear my well choose something else based purely on the ASR measured audio performance but we know better don't we.

 

[Kentajalli]

Indeed I saw you were very active on the thread on ASR defending the Hugo2, I'm honestly not trying to reproduce that content of that thread over here so its probably best for me to leave this here as my last reply, but you did ask.

I was defending the truth!
It just seemed odd, that Hugo2 should test with elevated noise on USB input, while going through the review, and then, not have elevated noise (incidentally the very same device), when on another review, it was used to show that a certain USB cable wasn't doing anything!!
As they say on ASR, time and time again, if a certain test result can not be repeated, then it is false.
Hugo2 has miniscule distortion. A tiny 2nd harmonic ONLY, at -120dB, this is as good as any desktop DAC/amp at any price or make, including Chords.
Its noise performance is fantastic, not good!, but fantastic for a portable device, indeed for any device.
Jitter? what jitter?
There is an issue though, not just with Hugo2 or Mojo's, but with just about any portable DAC that works off batteries.
That is, lack of a galvanic USB isolation, simply because such a device is an unnecessary burden on batteries. So if used carelessly, as a desktop DAC, ground loop noise may occur.
Use optical, and you are golden! (or use a £50, tiny Topping HS-01 USB isolator)
With portable, use the USB, don't worry about your cables picking up stray RFI noise from PC's or such, it won't happen!
Remember a 2Go, has Bluetooth and Wi-Fi blasting from it, yet nothing adverse happens on Hugo2.

I don't disagree, as I said the noise floor, distortion, jitter etc etc of the Hugo2 and M Scaler is well below the range of human hearing but going by the measurements does it really offer value for money, how many of the DAC's that beat it are cheaper?

Show me a portable device, made by anyone, that beats Hugo2 on objective rest results?
Perhaps a Diablo??
https://www-l7audiolab-com.translate.goog/f/ifi-idsd-diablo/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en
Expensive, yes it is, I agree wholeheartedly.
Yet you got one, I got one, and I do believe that a good number of guru's at ASR have one too .

 

[Mediahound]

That Audio Science Review guy is the worst kind of reviewer and does a total disservice to the community!

Example, in his M Scaler review he mostly tested and published measurements of it in a hobbled mode and not how it was designed to be used, using a Topping DAC. Yet he also just underhandedly mentioned that it tested and sounded good with a Chord DAC, the Hugo 2.

That's like a McLaren supercar reviewer saying: yeah, it runs perfectly well on high octane fuel, but here are my published performance tests using regular gas and with the spare tire installed.

This is just one example of his type of review methodology, he does this all the time.

 

[MarkParity]

That Audio Science Review guy is the worst kind of reviewer and does a total disservice to the community!

Example, in his M Scaler review he mostly tested and published measurements of it in a hobbled mode and not how it was designed to be used, using a Topping DAC. Yet he also just underhandedly mentioned that it tested and sounded good with a Chord DAC.

That's like a McLaren supercar reviewer saying: yeah, it runs perfectly well on high octane fuel, but here are my published performance tests using regular gas and with the spare tire installed.

This is just one example of his type of review methodology, he does this all the time.

How much money do I have to spend on the BNC cable to connect it up though to get best performance? Sorry I'm not spending that much money on a cable that should be included if its required to get the best performance.