[eskamobob1]

The problem with that is, it introduces an additional amp in the chain which will deliver more distortion to the "best driver possible"

There isnt a headphone in existence with lower distortion/flavor levels than a good amp. You wont get better fidelity sacrificing the can over the need for an amp in basicaly any scenario

 

[uzi2]

There isnt a headphone in existence with lower distortion/flavor levels than a good amp. You wont get better fidelity sacrificing the can over the need for an amp in basicaly any scenario

I am not suggesting you "sacrifice the can". There is a wonderful choice of high quality efficient headphones out there...

 

[eskamobob1]

There is a wonderful choice of high quality efficient headphones out there...

Are there? Seems like there are very few low impedence high sensitivity cans in the sumitfi space. ADX5k and D8kP are about as easy to run in teh sapce that I can think of and the only 2 people ik that have tries D8kP on H2 said it benefited from an amp.

 

[GreenBow]

Utopia/Hugo 2 has been my setup for about 3 years now and I love it. More than enough power to get them where they need to go.

I've heard some claim the combo can sound a little thin, but with the right digital source I don't experience that at all.

I tried the search function on this thread for Utopia, and got one result. I was wondering about Utopia and H2.

It's hard to imagine that the H2 doesn't have enough power for the Utopia. However I am no genius when it comes to knowing what is and isn't a power hungry headphone. Outside of knowing that Grado Labs headphones at 32 ohms are always said to be an easy load. I have IEMs at 16 ohm and 20 ohm, and they are easy. to drive.

What I don't know so muych about is what is considered sensitive in headphones. (I know speaker sensitivity and can get a rough idea when looking at speaker stats.)


It strikes me odd though, that the Utopia at 90 ohms is particularly tough to drive. It has a higher resistance than the IEMS I have. If there were an IEM with the same sensitivity, as the Utopia, the Utopia would need less current. Not more.

My AKG N5005 are 20 ohms and 116 dB. Utopia sensitivity is at 90 ohm and 104 dB. I can't equate what 116 dB (AKG N5005) and 104 dB (Utopia) sounds like in terms of volume. It sounds quite a step. Given the difference in current requirements over ohms, I can't see Utopia needing way more current though.

While I know that I don't know the ranges of what makes a headphone sensitive or not. Less sensitivity I think means more voltage needed. I can't see how the Utopia would need more voltage than the H2 can deliver.

My only assumption is that the some folk feel the Utopia + Hugo 2 pairing is not for them.

It's unlikely that the H2 can't deliver the voltage or power. Given it's marketed as being able to deal with a lot of headphones. I think some folk are even driving the Sennhieser HD800S with a massive 300ohms, with Hugo 2.

 

[dontfeedphils]

I tried the search function on this thread for Utopia, and got one result. I was wondering about Utopia and H2.

It's hard to imagine that the H2 doesn't have enough power for the Utopia. However I am no genius when it comes to knowing what is and isn't a power hungry headphone. Outside of knowing that Grado Labs headphones at 32 ohms are always said to be an easy load. I have IEMs at 16 ohm and 20 ohm, and they are easy. to drive.

What I don't know so muych about is what is considered sensitive in headphones. (I know speaker sensitivity and can get a rough idea when looking at speaker stats.)


It strikes me odd though, that the Utopia at 90 ohms is particularly tough to drive. It has a higher resistance than the IEMS I have. If there were an IEM with the same sensitivity, as the Utopia, the Utopia would need less current. Not more.

My AKG N5005 are 20 ohms and 116 dB. Utopia sensitivity is at 90 ohm and 104 dB. I can't equate what 116 dB (AKG N5005) and 104 dB (Utopia) sounds like in terms of volume. It sounds quite a step. Given the difference in current requirements over ohms, I can't see Utopia needing way more current though.

While I know that I don't know the ranges of what makes a headphone sensitive or not. Less sensitivity I think means more voltage needed. I can't see how the Utopia would need more voltage than the H2 can deliver.

My only assumption is that the some folk feel the Utopia + Hugo 2 pairing is not for them.

It's unlikely that the H2 can't deliver the voltage or power. Given it's marketed as being able to deal with a lot of headphones. I think some folk are even driving the Sennhieser HD800S with a massive 300ohms, with Hugo 2.

Yea, I think if people aren't a fan of the Hugo 2/Utopia pairing it's generally due to the overall sound of the Hugo 2 vs another DAC, not power requirements. Whenever I see someone talking about not being a fan of the combo it's normally because they like the TT2 pairing more so, which seems like a no-brainer. Like I said though, I think this comes down to the TT2 having a more "meaty" sound to it to begin with and less about Utopia's power requirements.

I don't have the spare cash for a TT2 and I like the portability of the Hugo 2, so I stick with what I've got and I haven't wanted for much more.

 

[surfgeorge]

I tried the search function on this thread for Utopia, and got one result. I was wondering about Utopia and H2.

The Utopia has been discussed a lot. When I ty the search I get 19 pages of posts. Maybe double check.

Currawong originally stated that he thought the H2 doesn't have enough power to drive the Utopia but later revised that statement.
Personally I find it hard to imagine how to distinguish between effects of amplifier output power and coloration.

But then, I refuse to add an amplifier to the H2, simply because I believe in keeping the chain as simple as possible, and because I don't want to go down one more rabbit hole looking for the perfect amplifier

 

[Dalmonegrig]

It's unlikely that the H2 can't deliver the voltage or power. Given it's marketed as being able to deal with a lot of headphones. I think some folk are even driving the Sennhieser HD800S with a massive 300ohms, with Hugo 2.

You are right, until other sound transmission technologies, types of headphone emitters (dynamic, isodynamic, electrostatic, hybrid) are used. All planar-type headphones require a lot more amplification power than dynamic ones with the same characteristics. Therefore, the Hugo 2 is able to drive the Sennhieser HD800 (300 ohms) normally, but the HiFiMAN HE-1000 (35 ohms) is not.

 

[LCMusicLover]

Lots of 'off' stuff here regarding headphone efficiency, impedance, power vs current ... I'll ignore all that, and just say:

- H2 & Utopia pair well together -- certainly enough power and current so that amp deficiency isn't an issue. Tonality of the pairing is 'your ear/my ears' and my ears likeee
- H2 & HEKse pair well together -- certainly enough power and current so that amp deficiency isn't an issue. Tonality of the pairing is 'your ear/my ears' and my ears likeee

In fact, all my cans (Heddphone, Ether 2, Auteur, HEKse, Utopia -- from most to least demanding) are well-driven from H2. I will say that Hedd teeters on the precipice of 'needs more juice'. Utopia and HEKse have oodles of headroom from H2 -- I mostly listen to Utopia on 'Yellow' and HEKse on 'Yellow/Green'.

 

[denisdunaj]

Is this button rattle normal?
I bought it 1 month ago, brand new in the store.

 

[dontfeedphils]

Is this button rattle normal?
I bought it 1 month ago, brand new in the store.

It's fine. The "marbles" just sit on top of the actual buttons and there's typically a bit of a gap between them.

 

[eskamobob1]

Lots of 'off' stuff here regarding headphone efficiency, impedance, power vs current ... I'll ignore all that, and just say:

- H2 & Utopia pair well together -- certainly enough power and current so that amp deficiency isn't an issue. Tonality of the pairing is 'your ear/my ears' and my ears likeee
- H2 & HEKse pair well together -- certainly enough power and current so that amp deficiency isn't an issue. Tonality of the pairing is 'your ear/my ears' and my ears likeee

In fact, all my cans (Heddphone, Ether 2, Auteur, HEKse, Utopia -- from most to least demanding) are well-driven from H2. I will say that Hedd teeters on the precipice of 'needs more juice'. Utopia and HEKse have oodles of headroom from H2 -- I mostly listen to Utopia on 'Yellow' and HEKse on 'Yellow/Green'.

Lol. Ive just given up on discussing power requirements and amping in this thread. H2 has some current limits, but its not enough to just throw out any and all planars, and it also has voltage limits that dont play particularly well with super high impedence stuff but will be fine if the sensitivity is high enough. Ultimately the H2 is 740mW into 32ohm and 94mW into 300ohm. Thats not nothing but its not a lot. Will it run Arya? Not super well. Will it run HEKse or LCD-X? Yes. Just fine. and no, underpowering your cans off of a H2 doesnt lead to better fidelity than properly powering them with an external amp

 

[GreenBow]

@dontfeedphils
@surfgeorge
@Dalmonegrig
@LCMusicLover

Thanks.

I have been about to buy some Utopia for a while. THe stories about them being bright were scary and made me pause. However all review point to the Utopia being effortlessly neutral and balanced. ... I did think about the new Stax SR-009s, but there aren't enough reviews to drop that sort of money. Well, not in a pandemic with no ability for audition. I think the Utopia would suit me better in some ways, like its portability.

I do like electrostats though. I have the Shure KSE 1200 (electrostatic IEMs), and I can not say enough about them. They truly are effortless neutrality. ... I know electrostats are bound to a reputation of bieng a bit bright or bass weak. Somehow the KSE 1200 are perfect in balance.

With reference to how KSE 1200 and Hugo 2 pair, I think it's perfect. I have listened to the KSE 1200 with my Hugo 2, TT2, Mojo, and Sony ZX300 DAP. On reflection I think that the KSE 1200 are so neutral that I feel I only hear the source.

Some say the Utopia are like that, so I should get on with them well. I did have some Stellia for four weeks, so I can guestimate the Utopia - anyway long story about that. (For reference, What HiFi said the KSE 1200 made the Focal Stellia seem a little blurred and slow. Direct quote "Compared with this, even excellent high-end over-ear headphones such Focal’s Stellia (£2795) sound a little slow, soft and blurred." https://www.whathifi.com/reviews/shure-kse1200)

Anyway, what I was meaning to get on to saying was about how the H2 and Shure KSE 1200 sound. I think it's reflective of how the Utopia and H2 would. .... I can imagine some folk saying they wanted an amplifier between a H2 and KSE 1200. I was baffled at first with the pairing in some ways; like bass light, not bass light. The amplitude of bass to treble was exactly right, but I was still puzzling out the KSE 1200. What I worked out what I was hearing, was bass as it was supposed to sound. Bass was more tonally accurate than I had ever heard, because of electrostatic speed. ................. The Hugo 2 was never thin with KSE 1200. It's actually a serving of the most incredible sound. The TT2 was thicker but in a different way to just thicker sound: even more detail and accuracy than Hugo 2.

 

[miketlse]

I tried the search function on this thread for Utopia, and got one result. I was wondering about Utopia and H2.

It's hard to imagine that the H2 doesn't have enough power for the Utopia. However I am no genius when it comes to knowing what is and isn't a power hungry headphone. Outside of knowing that Grado Labs headphones at 32 ohms are always said to be an easy load. I have IEMs at 16 ohm and 20 ohm, and they are easy. to drive.

What I don't know so muych about is what is considered sensitive in headphones. (I know speaker sensitivity and can get a rough idea when looking at speaker stats.)


It strikes me odd though, that the Utopia at 90 ohms is particularly tough to drive. It has a higher resistance than the IEMS I have. If there were an IEM with the same sensitivity, as the Utopia, the Utopia would need less current. Not more.

My AKG N5005 are 20 ohms and 116 dB. Utopia sensitivity is at 90 ohm and 104 dB. I can't equate what 116 dB (AKG N5005) and 104 dB (Utopia) sounds like in terms of volume. It sounds quite a step. Given the difference in current requirements over ohms, I can't see Utopia needing way more current though.

While I know that I don't know the ranges of what makes a headphone sensitive or not. Less sensitivity I think means more voltage needed. I can't see how the Utopia would need more voltage than the H2 can deliver.

My only assumption is that the some folk feel the Utopia + Hugo 2 pairing is not for them.

It's unlikely that the H2 can't deliver the voltage or power. Given it's marketed as being able to deal with a lot of headphones. I think some folk are even driving the Sennhieser HD800S with a massive 300ohms, with Hugo 2.

After reading many posts, it is clear that some owners find that the Hugo 2>Utopia works well, bit other owners do not enjoy the solution.
It is realistic to assume that 'one solution does not suit everyone'.

 

[eskamobob1]

After reading many posts, it is clear that some owners find that the Hugo 2>Utopia works well, bit other owners do not enjoy the solution.
It is realistic to assume that 'one solution does not suit everyone'.

Honestly, the utopia is also probabaly the most devisive sumitfi can which wont help at all. IMO, all focal stuff needs a warm amp, so I probabaly wouldnt like utopia on the H2 (have th H2 but its been a while snce I heard utopia and it was before I had more hifi context)

 

[Progisus]

From many hours of listening the H2 / Utopia has great synergy.