CHORD ELECTRONICS DAVE

[rkt31]

You misread my reply. All your other points are good solutions ...but in respect to the wire from the DAC output to the other downstream components...you need to stop RF noise from coming BACK up that wire. Some DACs use a low pass filter or transformer at the output but this takes away transparency. So the solution is to consider what lossless mitigation is possible...and what I am saying is that a preamp (inadvertently) serves that purpose.

Can you please name such dacs which have low pass filter at output stage just for removing noise?

 

[alphaman]

Patents are fine as far as they go, but for an individual, jealously guarded intellectual property is a better option vs releasing white papers in great detail and then having another change a few small items to make it subtly different and the possibility of expensive litigation to resolve any disputes.

This thread is a manuf and Chord customer and Chord influencer thread, so the final word is yours, of course.

That said ...
Certainly, Chord -- because of their popular, well-selling D/A products -- can afford to invest in patents. And (hence) Chord can safely divulge some detail, but not necessarily a 30-page White Paper with schematics.
As an informed customer, I like to have some technical insight into a multi-thousand-$ item I may be considering purchasing. [Mysterious designs give me the creeps. ] Also, some public detail (block diagrams, etc), can bring in a wealth of fresh ideas that can improve the orig product.

With all due respect, it's a bit odd that Chord employs a single entity (Mr. Watts) for all digital development (including subjective listening evaluations and opinions). It's true that in-house design teams can be $$ to payroll, and counterproductive if the members don't "gel" and "merge" together.

But that's possibly an old-fashioned view . Because of the nature of the Internet; SM; and potentially, this thread being the team.

Me ... I'm happy to help ... free-o-charge. Never have owned a Chord DAC. No plans to, either. Hope y'all can 'preciate da un-biased, un-influencery, 'pinions .
"That's a very nice rendering, DAVE" [HAL9000, from 2001]

 

[Rob Watts]

Before you assume there is some kind of magic going on ...Consider that the preamp is in the DACs output path. Ask yourself... if Dave has volume that is nigh perfect...noise shaped too ....and the output is not stressed due to it going into a high impedance...then how does adding a pre in the output signal chain make the signal better? Or more true?

Ahhh ...it's because the output is also an input allowing electromagnetic energy back into the DAC where it affects the small signal processing. The pre acts as a filter of sorts from downstream RF noise.

I have been aware of random RF noise creating noise floor modulation, and hence seriously damaging SQ for 4 decades now - and been constantly working on ways to improve the situation without damaging SQ or transparency. Don't you think I don't know about random RF noise upstream (from cables and electronics) upsetting sound quality? Dave is equipped with RF filters that do not damage SQ or transparency on the outputs to directly mitigate these problems. Connecting a pre-amp will definitely increase overall random RF noise, both going to the power amp and feeding back to the DAC, plus adding directly to noise floor modulation itself. The best sounding (that is the most transparent) pre-amp is no pre-amp at all, as the best sounding power amp is no power amp at all.

 

[alphaman]

The best sounding (that is the most transparent) pre-amp is no pre-amp at all, as the best sounding power amp is no power amp at all.

It's not that simple

High-end preamps are full of components that certainly add more metal and mass and quantum structures than lesser-performing pre-amps with simpler circuits ...

above: Ayre preamp. $20,000

And the secret to better vinyl rips is: turntable/cart. ---> phono preamp ---> high-quality tape deck ---> ADC ---> HDD


In other words, the buffering is like magic. Not sure why it works. God and his mysterious way ...

 

[ObjectiveSubjectivist]

High-end preamps are full of components that certainly add more metal and mass and quantum structures than lesser-performing pre-amps with simpler circuits .

In other words, the buffering is like magic. Not sure why it works. God and his mysterious way ...

My quantum BS meter went through the roof.

 

[Yatharth]

(Deleted)

 

[miketlse]

My quantum BS meter went through the roof.

I roll my eyes when people use the term quantum to make their arguments sound pseudo-scientific.

 

[ObjectiveSubjectivist]

I roll my eyes when people use the term quantum to make their arguments sound pseudo-scientific.

Still there are companies (Synergistic research - yeah right, RESEARCH my ass) that sell items marked as "Quantum something" and people believe in that and swear by them.
What you gonna do, it's an audiophile world

 

[miketlse]

Still there are companies (Synergistic research - yeah right, RESEARCH my ass) that sell items marked as "Quantum something" and people believe in that and swear by them.
What you gonna do, it's an audiophile world

Defcon 1 - roll my eyes
Defcon 2 - shake my head
Defcon 3 - regard any marketing claims as suspect and probably BS.

 

[alphaman]

Defcon 1 - roll my eyes
Defcon 2 - shake my head
Defcon 3 - regard any marketing claims as suspect and probably BS.

I roll my eyes when people use the term quantum to make their arguments sound pseudo-scientific.

Indeed, sound pseudo-scientific. , as you ignored my entire reply about the benefits of buffering and lashed out with a non sequitur .

I don't own a Chord product. Have no plans in acquiring that or any "high-end", high-$$ device by any manuf. Never have. Never will. Hence, I think I am free of sunk cost fallacy/bias. I think.
About Synergistic research. You nailed it by mentioning that magic word.

 

[miketlse]

Indeed, sound pseudo-scientific. , as you ignored my entire reply about the benefits of buffering and lashed out with a non sequitur .

I don't own a Chord product. Have no plans in acquiring that or any "high-end", high-$$ device by any manuf. Never have. Never will. Hence, I think I am free of sunk cost fallacy/bias. I think.
About Synergistic research. You nailed it by mentioning that magic word.

I did read your reply, and noted that you referred to 'quantum structures'.

I don't care whether you buy a Chord product or not.

 

[Kentajalli]

In other words, the buffering is like magic. Not sure why it works. God and his mysterious way ...

If God and his mysterious ways had ruled the electronics world, we would have been listening to phonographs , still.
It is maths, physics & measurements that have the final word.
All those equipments you mentioned above, are made and designed by engineers that follow maths and physics, no guess work, no mysterious godly influence .

 

[Digital Enigma]

Audiophiles really do be crazy

 

[number1sixerfan]

Audiophiles really do be crazy

lol

 

[rkt31]

Indeed, sound pseudo-scientific. , as you ignored my entire reply about the benefits of buffering and lashed out with a non sequitur .

I don't own a Chord product. Have no plans in acquiring that or any "high-end", high-$$ device by any manuf. Never have. Never will. Hence, I think I am free of sunk cost fallacy/bias. I think.
About Synergistic research. You nailed it by mentioning that magic word.

$20000 pre, just to have buffer? Dacs can be fed directly to power amp. The main requirement should be to have sufficiently low output impedance to drive power amp. One can use even software volume control if a dac doesn't have one. Some music players like j river, hq players have very good software volume control.