CHORD ELECTRONICS DAVE

[thePhones]

I think Rob has got actual D-A conversion sorted with his pulse array design, improvements now centred on filtering, noise shaping and power supply isolation, makes sense to concentrate on feeding the DAC a better input.

Don’t forget the Ultima Dac. We will see when it comes out how much was changed or not.

 

[cotic54]

Dave2.
Ultima DAC.
Ultima Scaler.
Poor old Rob....... he might want to retire someday

 

[analogmusic]

Most modern dacs are good enough from a digital processing perspective. The true differentiators are power supply, clock design, clock distribution, power delivery, RF noise control, ground plane noise, input jitter control, output design, board quality, layout, vibration control, most of these are analog problems and cost money to get right.

hi cheesebert, I usually do not partake in such discussions, just enjoy the music nowadays. I noted you own a streamer from Linn, they are nice products.

But in my opinion, (I am also an amateur musician) @Rob Watts has got it absolutely right with his WTA design. Chord did start with 1024 taps with the DAC64...

Anyway - he is absolutely right about transients making music sound like music. The Naim/Linn school of digital is very particular about pace, rhythm and timing, and they are right, but transients do matter, a LOT.

Thank you Rob for all your hard work over so many decades, there isn't day that goes by that I don't experience music on a Chord DAC.

 

[chesebert]

hi cheesebert, I usually do not partake in such discussions, just enjoy the music nowadays. I noted you own a streamer from Linn, they are nice products.

But in my opinion, (I am also an amateur musician) @Rob Watts has got it absolutely right with his WTA design. Chord did start with 1024 taps with the DAC64...

Anyway - he is absolutely right about transients making music sound like music. The Naim/Linn school of digital is very particular about pace, rhythm and timing, and they are right, but transients do matter, a LOT.

Thank you Rob for all your hard work over so many decades, there isn't day that goes by that I don't experience music on a Chord DAC.

There’s nothing special about the WTA filter, which is Chord’s version of a windowed sinc filter. I’ve owned and listened to multiple Chord DACs, and I believe they produce a clean sound, but they lack the PRaT characteristic of other TOTL DACs. They remind me of Topping and other budget DACs. If possible, I encourage you to experiment with other DACs that employ different conversion techniques, including chip based DACs. Afterward, you can revisit my previous post.

 

[Jon L]

There’s nothing special about the WTA filter, which is Chord’s version of a windowed sinc filter. I’ve owned and listened to multiple Chord DACs, and I believe they produce a clean sound, but they lack the PRaT characteristic of other TOTL DACs. They remind me of Topping and other budget DACs. If possible, I encourage you to experiment with other DACs that employ different conversion techniques, including chip based DACs. Afterward, you can revisit my previous post.

That's a darn thing to post in a Chord thread, but do you have some specific DAC examples with state of art PRAT in comparison?

 

[chesebert]

That's a darn thing to post in a Chord thread, but do you have some specific DAC examples with state of art PRAT in comparison?

Sure. Vivaldi, DV2 (DV2i is reportedly more dynamic), MPD8, Klimax NG, MU2 (not quite the level of PRaT compared with others but way more natural sounding than Dave), Lampi (don’t remember model), Soul Note D3, just off of the top of my head.

 

[ThanatosVI]

Sure. Vivaldi, DV2 (DV2i is reportedly more dynamic), MPD8, Klimax NG, MU2 (not quite the level of PRaT compared with others but way more natural sounding than Dave), Lampi (don’t remember model), Soul Note D3, just off of the top of my head.

At least the Vivaldi has a significantly higher price tag. How about the Lina?
That one plays in the same price bracket.

 

[chesebert]

At least the Vivaldi has a significantly higher price tag. How about the Lina?
That one plays in the same price bracket.

Lina has better PRaT than Dave but too many other shortcomings, detail, layering, micro dynamics, etc. Not worth the price IMO.

I think Dave is not a good buy in its own. However if you can find Dave with DC4 for around $10k I don’t think that’s a bad buy if you stick with a tube preamp or headphone amp.

 

[GuiltyRocker]

There’s nothing special about the WTA filter, which is Chord’s version of a windowed sinc filter. I’ve owned and listened to multiple Chord DACs, and I believe they produce a clean sound, but they lack the PRaT characteristic of other TOTL DACs. They remind me of Topping and other budget DACs. If possible, I encourage you to experiment with other DACs that employ different conversion techniques, including chip based DACs. Afterward, you can revisit my previous post.

Nothing special and yet here you are years later still commenting on Chord threads . Dude move on, you're not a Chord man just get out of here . Go to your favorite DAC forums and just stay there.

 

[Meridian7]

Nothing special and yet here you are years later still commenting on Chord threads . Dude move on, you're not a Chord man just get out of here . Go to your favorite DAC forums and just stay there.

It is possible to miss out on what Dave has to offer even with the mandatory mscaler, in fact there are achilles heels present. (Rob said he'd do things differently)
His testimony of Topping level similarity, not having being able to notice the value of WTA and taps illustrates beyond a shadow of a doubt that he scratched only the surface unluckily and gospel that song.
Imho.

 

[GuiltyRocker]

It is possible to miss out on what Dave has to offer even with the mandatory mscaler, in fact there are achilles heels present. (Rob said he'd do things differently)
His testimony of Topping level similarity, not having being able to notice the value of WTA and taps illustrates beyond a shadow of a doubt that he scratched only the surface unluckily and gospel that song.
Imho.

Yea, sounds like someone that is either deaf, or listens with crappy equipment, either way I find it bizarre that some of these people insist on coming to forums such as this to keep disparaging and trolling. I dislike a lot of DACs including all of the chi-Fi, but, I don't go to their forums to trash them, I just don't buy their product. This behavior is just bizarre to me.

 

[number1sixerfan]

PRAT is a really subjective term and I try not to use it for that reason. I think most equate it to mean liveliness and adequate bass impact. After a lot of experimentation and also upgrading to the Lampi Pacific, I think that the Dave does pretty well with PRAT (general def of pace, rhythm and timing + what most typically equate it to mean). I think where it can improve is in timbre and tone. Not to open a can of worms, but yes the Dave at times can come off as analytical and a bit thin in nature when compared to other TOTL DACs.

I have also found that what at times seems to be a perception of lack of bass is rather slightly less optimal timbre, which gives the perception of the former. I've seen this consistently in amp comparisons and also with the Dave. I didn't find the Lina to improve the bass of the sound, rather it had a weightier sound overall and coupled with a warmer tone could equate to a more "musical" sound. As mentioned previously however, the Lina simply lacks the spacing and layering that the Dave has and is as equally apparent. But by the average implied meaning of the word PRAT, I don't think it lags behind it or anything mentioned along with it really.

Same with the Lampi Pacific, which was my upgrade from the Dave. Where it does improve is overall resolution, size of the overall image of sound, and tone/timbre. I actually find the Dave to have a slightly higher sense of quickness and bass impact wise it's close.. and if I had to give a nod, I'd probably give it to the Dave. And you have to keep in mind here that the Pacific is at quite a higher price point (mine with the Engine 11 upgrade), and the Dave is still competitive and wins in a few categories.

Pricing adjusted for, anyone acting as if the Dave barely competes with medium to low tier dacs is trolling, as Cheesebert often does (no offense man lol). In my honest opinion to beat the Dave you certainly have to spend a LOT more money, and that is the reason I kept it for so long before upgrading and still own it.

 

[GuiltyRocker]

PRAT is a really subjective term and I try not to use it for that reason. I think most equate it to mean liveliness and adequate bass impact. After a lot of experimentation and also upgrading to the Lampi Pacific that the Dave does pretty well with PRAT (general def of pace, rhythm and timing + what most typically equate it to mean). I think where it can improve is in timbre and tone. Not to open a can of worms, but yes the Dave at times can come off as analytical and a bit thin in nature when compared to other TOTL DACs. I have also found that what at times seems to be a perception of lack of bass is rather slightly less optimal timbre, which gives the perception of the former. I've seen this consistently in amp comparisons and also with the Dave. I didn't find the Lina to improve the bass of the sound, rather it had a weightier sound overall and coupled with a warmer tone could equate to a more "musical" sound. As mentioned previously however, the Lina simply lacks the spacing and layering that the Dave has and is as equally apparent. But by the average implied meaning of the word PRAT, I don't think it lags behind it or anything mentioned along with it really.

Same with the Lampi Pacific, which was my upgrade from the Dave. Where it does improve is overall resolution, size of the overall image of sound, and tone/timbre. I actually find the Dave to have a slightly higher sense of quickness and bass impact wise it's close.. and if I had to give a nod, I'd probably give it to the Dave. And you have to keep in mind here that the Pacific is at quite a higher price point (mine with the Engine 11 upgrade), and the Dave is still competitive and wins in a few categories.

Pricing adjusted for, anyone acting as if the Dave barely competes with medium to low tier dacs is trolling, as Cheesebert often does (no offense man lol). In my honest opinion to beat the Dave you certainly have to spend a LOT more money, and that is the reason I kept it for so long before upgrading and still own it.

This is a classy way of explaining you have listened to other DACs and find strengths and weaknesses to each, I have to agree with you. I had the DAVE in my system for a while, I actually prefer the TT-2 with M Scaler, the warmth and musicality the TT-2/HMS has in my system is just amazing. I love it.

 

[number1sixerfan]

This is a classy way of explaining you have listened to other DACs and find strengths and weaknesses to each, I have to agree with you. I had the DAVE in my system for a while, I actually prefer the TT-2 with M Scaler, the warmth and musicality the TT-2/HMS has in my system is just amazing. I love it.

I appreciate it. I would also just say that we shouldn't have to be careful or mince words in sharing feedback that isn't 100% positive for any gear, Chord included. I get the dynamics that make it challenging in this thread (between and contributed to by Chord and non-Chord owners), which to me is a bit unfortunate. But it just is what it is at this point.

Anyways, I own the Hugo2/Dave/Mscaler and I've heard this regarding the TT2 a few times although I've yet to hear it. I hope I'm able to one day.

 

[analogmusic]

There’s nothing special about the WTA filter, which is Chord’s version of a windowed sinc filter. I’ve owned and listened to multiple Chord DACs, and I believe they produce a clean sound, but they lack the PRaT characteristic of other TOTL DACs. They remind me of Topping and other budget DACs. If possible, I encourage you to experiment with other DACs that employ different conversion techniques, including chip based DACs. Afterward, you can revisit my previous post.

Thanks, I always have an open mind when it comes to digital sources

I have owned Naim and Linn sources, and enjoyed my time with them. I like that sound, but I moved on to Chord, and happy with the music since I got my first Chord Hugo back in 2015.

Auditioned a digital full stack 100,000 GBP source in London (you can guess which company)....

I now have an Mscaler Dave, 2qute, Mojo 1 and Mojo 2, I do enjoy all of them (and I have use cases for all of them).... don't plan on selling them...