Mar 9, 2022 at 6:14 PM Post #19,396 of 27,068
Yes they did it is a stock medical switched power supply that does sort of its job and they found it sufficiant for there application i guess after some testing…. Amazing considering the difference after adding some good linear power setups on the dave. I imagine you stick to the direction taken once decided and preach it until death. But in the real world everybody that actualy did the upgrade if its jc or farad or whatever are each and every one flabbergasted about the improvement. What makes you wonder what the designer would think after all these years… aaahh well who cares it can be improved so we do and enjoy…
Okay. I was wrong I guess. Unlike other dac manufacturers with proprietary designed SMP for audio, Chord just got lazy/cheap and bought off the shelf SMP not designed specifically for audio.

All my Linns have SMP and those digital front end sound full with high sound density and deep/hard hitting bass.

I just figured if you are selling a $10k dac you would spend some R&D/BOM money on power supply and power distributions.
 
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Mar 9, 2022 at 6:24 PM Post #19,397 of 27,068
Okay. I was wrong I guess. Unlike other dac manufacturers with proprietary designed SMP for audio, Chord just got lazy/cheap and bought off the shelf SMP not designed specifically for audio.

All my Linns have SMP and those digital front end sound full with high sound density and deep/hard hitting bass.

I just figured if you are selling a $10k dac you would spend some R&D/BOM money on power supply and power distributions.
Yep your absolutely right
 
Mar 9, 2022 at 7:20 PM Post #19,398 of 27,068
Couldn’t agree more wholeheartedly. As I’m typing this, I’m listening to the Dave through a pair of Sennheiser 800S headphones to a marvelous DSD recording of chamber music (see below pic). Heard through my Lampi DAC on my Quad 2905 electrostatics with Audio Research Reference tube electronics, this recording is simply sublime, it is enthralling, it sounds magisterial with life sized images of Jon Manasse’s clarinet and Jon Nakamatsu’s piano. The recording goes from soft to loud really quickly, climaxes are thunderous. On the Dave/Sennheiser 800S, everything is miniaturized. The tone becomes significantly more brittle. Dynamics are compressed. It’s a pale shadow of the sound I hear on the Lampi DAC through my large 5” tall Quads. Some of this is because headphones intrinsically miniaturize the soundstage and compress dynamics, but not all of it. Essentially why people on this forum go to great lengths buying Sean Williams very expensive LPS for the Dave is precisely because the Dave on its own sounds quite wimpy. Someone previously said the power supply on the Dave is a $25 part, I’m not sure how accurate that is. But clearly Dave is built to a price point and parts quality has been economized, not least in the all important power supply. So, I agree, there’s a huge world out there beyond Dave, but only you can decide if it’s worth pursuing that. I’m keeping my Dave to serve as a quasi portable desktop DAC, where it fits the bill nicely. But in my high end system, it’s completely outclassed by other admittedly more expensive DACs.

Are you sure your dissatisfaction is not due to the closely miked clarinet? I always find closed miked clarinet doesn't sound good on headphones - they always tend to fall to one side or the other on headphones and sound fatiguing.
 
Mar 9, 2022 at 8:56 PM Post #19,399 of 27,068
A more apt comparison would be using Dave with the Quads, not the 800s, which are..mid tier at best.
Been there, done that. Before the Dave was “dethroned” by the Lampi in my main system, I used the Dave for about 2 years with my Quads, so you can say I know its sound like the back of my hand. Mid-fi describes how I view the Dave. It’s a fine DAC for driving headphones and a desktop system. That’s why they apparently used a $20 power supply. Gets the job done, I suppose.
 
Mar 10, 2022 at 6:13 AM Post #19,400 of 27,068
Been there, done that. Before the Dave was “dethroned” by the Lampi in my main system, I used the Dave for about 2 years with my Quads, so you can say I know its sound like the back of my hand
I'm sure you do, it can't have been that bad if you've used it for over 2 years. I get it though, all this talk of upgrading this and that makes you either want to give in to the latest fad (Wave cables, LPSU's) or just sell the thing and be done with it. The more I read, I'm also more inclined to do the former.
Mid-fi describes how I view the Dave. It’s a fine DAC for driving headphones and a desktop system.
I was not trying to get into a pissing contest, it's just that the headphones were clearly a limiting factor. Using an LCD-5 with Dave was a completely different beast to anything else I've tried. I imagine electrostatics or an Abyss + capable amp would also be a huge step up. What a Lampi would sound like in that setup..no idea.
That’s why they apparently used a $20 power supply. Gets the job done, I suppose
I was actually looking at the Bartok and Rossini for a while now, and trying to justify the upgrade somehow, and they announce a 25% price increase across the board. And this was with regular Covid supply chain issues, just give it a year until this new (hopefully) cold war increases material prices. For the "Apex" models at least they point to "a few months of hard work ".
I think it's easy to just throw money at the problem to make it better. If there's a niche that keep demanding more expensive and bedazzled components, good for them. I wonder if the pricing is more indicative of an economic failure rather than quantifiable improvements though. They don't seem to hold their value very well on the used market, so I just might see for myself at one point.
 
Mar 10, 2022 at 10:02 AM Post #19,401 of 27,068
I'm sure you do, it can't have been that bad if you've used it for over 2 years. I get it though, all this talk of upgrading this and that makes you either want to give in to the latest fad (Wave cables, LPSU's) or just sell the thing and be done with it. The more I read, I'm also more inclined to do the former.

I was not trying to get into a pissing contest, it's just that the headphones were clearly a limiting factor. Using an LCD-5 with Dave was a completely different beast to anything else I've tried. I imagine electrostatics or an Abyss + capable amp would also be a huge step up. What a Lampi would sound like in that setup..no idea.

I was actually looking at the Bartok and Rossini for a while now, and trying to justify the upgrade somehow, and they announce a 25% price increase across the board. And this was with regular Covid supply chain issues, just give it a year until this new (hopefully) cold war increases material prices. For the "Apex" models at least they point to "a few months of hard work ".
I think it's easy to just throw money at the problem to make it better. If there's a niche that keep demanding more expensive and bedazzled components, good for them. I wonder if the pricing is more indicative of an economic failure rather than quantifiable improvements though. They don't seem to hold their value very well on the used market, so I just might see for myself at one point.
Just because it's more expensive doesn't mean it is better. The way it's designed and manufactured is more important.
 
Mar 10, 2022 at 1:38 PM Post #19,402 of 27,068
Just because it's more expensive doesn't mean it is better. The way it's designed and manufactured is more important.
I think it's important that Chord either designs their own SMP or license an SMP from another hifi manufacturer. Mass produced SMP units are generally not appropriate for audio use.
 
Mar 10, 2022 at 2:27 PM Post #19,403 of 27,068
274756422_1581187465589516_8119671873181097139_n.jpg

Well i've had them both for home auditions on separate occasions, but never at the same time. Initially i liked the LCD-5 more but having them side by side...i much prefer the Elite.
 
Mar 10, 2022 at 2:53 PM Post #19,404 of 27,068
I think it's important that Chord either designs their own SMP or license an SMP from another hifi manufacturer. Mass produced SMP units are generally not appropriate for audio use.
I have read so many posts in my Mojo > Qutest and now Dave journey about SMPS's choices Rob made. Its obvious the RF filtering doesnt stop with the PSU molule
(or wall wart in case of Qutest/TT2) but inside the DAC's are further voltage and RF optimalisations, i saw the filter components myself.
So internal voltages are re-regulated making the PSU module actually 'the first stage' For sure im confident at least all things Inside the DAC are sorted.

See here i found another Rob's explanation reposted by someone:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/more-rob-wattage.10882/

The only thing im hesitant to do is placing SuperCaps directly over the output transistors in the DAVE. just like its done for TT2 so on the HP amp i have a little more peak current reserve for perhaps better dynamics.. (this has nothing to do with RF)
 
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Mar 10, 2022 at 2:55 PM Post #19,405 of 27,068
Well i've had them both for home auditions on separate occasions, but never at the same time. Initially i liked the LCD-5 more but having them side by side...i much prefer the Elite.
Have you compared those also with HD800's by any chance?
 
Mar 10, 2022 at 3:01 PM Post #19,406 of 27,068
Have you compared those also with HD800's by any chance?
No, sorry, I've never really liked any Sennheiser's so they were always off my radar. The Z1R are still superb for a closed back. I've tried HEKSE,LCD-4z, Utopias, Stellias, Lirics if those can provide any context. And Susvara on a TT2 for a bit but wasn't crazy about them.
 
Mar 10, 2022 at 3:13 PM Post #19,407 of 27,068
I have read so many posts in my Mojo > Qutest and now Dave journey about SMPS's choices Rob made. Its obvious the RF filtering doesnt stop with the PSU molule
(or wall wart in case of Qutest/TT2) but inside the DAC's are further voltage and RF optimalisations, i saw the filter components myself.
So internal voltages are re-regulated making the PSU module actually 'the first stage' For sure im confident at least all things Inside the DAC are sorted.

See here i found another Rob's explanation reposted by someone:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/more-rob-wattage.10882/

The only thing im hesitant to do is placing SuperCaps directly over the output transistors in the DAVE. just like its done for TT2 so on the HP amp i have a little more peak current reserve for perhaps better dynamics.. (this has nothing to do with RF)
Just a wall of text without any substance..sorry man. Step 1 to reduce RF, put your damn SMP in a Faraday cage. There was also no discussion of current capability and transient behavior. You can tell from the discussion that Rob's focus was on digital portion of the DAC, about noise, reference voltage, etc. I am sure Rob did a fine job on the digital portion of the dac.
 
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Mar 10, 2022 at 3:18 PM Post #19,408 of 27,068
I have read so many posts in my Mojo > Qutest and now Dave journey about SMPS's choices Rob made. Its obvious the RF filtering doesnt stop with the PSU molule
(or wall wart in case of Qutest/TT2) but inside the DAC's are further voltage and RF optimalisations, i saw the filter components myself.
So internal voltages are re-regulated making the PSU module actually 'the first stage' For sure im confident at least all things Inside the DAC are sorted.

See here i found another Rob's explanation reposted by someone:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/more-rob-wattage.10882/

The only thing im hesitant to do is placing SuperCaps directly over the output transistors in the DAVE. just like its done for TT2 so on the HP amp i have a little more peak current reserve for perhaps better dynamics.. (this has nothing to do with RF)
Why hesitant? Wont damage seems to me if you put them over the main 12v as you mentioned. Could indeed be possible that some hard to drive cans will just give that bit more bite or slamm. Could be asome combi, lps upgrade and if you mod works it will please two worlds
 
Mar 10, 2022 at 3:34 PM Post #19,409 of 27,068
Why hesitant? Wont damage seems to me if you put them over the main 12v as you mentioned. Could indeed be possible that some hard to drive cans will just give that bit more bite or slamm. Could be asome combi, lps upgrade and if you mod works it will please two worlds
In my Qutest it worked like a charm for direct driving my HP out of the RCA's but that was also bc Qutest power section was not designed for supplying higher currents to HP's.. just a maybe 50kohm load of a pre-amp.

I opened Dave and unscrewed the PCB but cant take it out to do better measuring on the amp section.. i think it has a hidden screw through the heatsink but the LCD is gluetaped on it and im careful not to pull it too hard..

Has anybody took the PCB out once? On the web are zero pictures to find on it being outside the case..
 
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Mar 10, 2022 at 3:46 PM Post #19,410 of 27,068
I see now i follow your aprouch. No i have not tried it yet. I was looking to replace these first three caps on the dc in. These are also low cost and color the sound.
 

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