[Lgn3]

The Android Roon Remote App is very slow to open, and sometimes will not open on my Samsung S7. Version 1.7 was ok. Does it open as fast as 1.7 on your android devices?

Yes

 

[TheAttorney]

Roon 1.8 seems to sound better as well, which could be due to better management of the audio drivers. Will still need to try the jitterbug to see if that helps.

When I looked at the jitterbug last year, I ended up with the iFi iSilencer+, primarily because it did better in the few comparison reviews I managed to find at the time (I didn't directly compare the two myself). So you should consider the iSilencer as well, especially as the the new "+" version is an improvement on the older model that beat jitterbug in those reviews.

The iSilencer+ did give an incremental improvement to my HMS/Dave-based system that I felt was worth the low price, but it's subtle and won't dramatically change anything. I ended up with 3 of them and each helped a bit, rather like cables do. To put that into more context, a couple of years back I moved from Roon 1.7 to Euphony Stylus for a significantly improved SQ on my tweaked NUC server. Which pained me because I had a lifetime Roon license. I recently tried Roon 1.8 just to see and, well, it didn't last long - a very disappointing step backwards in SQ compared to Stylus. Much greater than the difference the iSilencers gave.

I still use Roon on my "transportable" system for music browsing and discovery, for which it is excellent. With different hardware and different configurations, I'm sure Roon would sound fine. So if you're happy with its SQ, then that's also fine. But if you're looking for a significant jump in SQ, then don't expect the jitterbug to do much compared to other potential changes to, say, server hardware and software. Sorry about that.

 

[jlbrach]

Roon 1.8 is a huge improvement in terms of overall stability on iOS and Android devices as well as on the Roon Core. The interface is a bit snazzier. But the previous 1.7 was very unstable for me and all the glitches seem to have been ironed out. I complained loudly and vociferously on the Roon forum and hopefully my input and other similar gripes have had positive effect, I’d like to believe. Roon 1.8 seems to sound better as well, which could be due to better management of the audio drivers. Will still need to try the jitterbug to see if that helps.

I also found roon 1.7 very unstable on my mac with my roon nucleus and now my sonic transporter...I was always forced to restart the server which became a hassle...so far in the couple of days I have been ising 1.8 it has been stable but we will see over time...I do wish I could find a way to have the all music album ratings shown when I go to an artist without having to click on the album...with 1.7 the rating was shown for all of the albums along with dynamic range in the thumbnails

 

[Triode User]

When I looked at the jitterbug last year, I ended up with the iFi iSilencer+, primarily because it did better in the few comparison reviews I managed to find at the time (I didn't directly compare the two myself). So you should consider the iSilencer as well, especially as the the new "+" version is an improvement on the older model that beat jitterbug in those reviews.

The iSilencer+ did give an incremental improvement to my HMS/Dave-based system that I felt was worth the low price, but it's subtle and won't dramatically change anything. I ended up with 3 of them and each helped a bit, rather like cables do. To put that into more context, a couple of years back I moved from Roon 1.7 to Euphony Stylus for a significantly improved SQ on my tweaked NUC server. Which pained me because I had a lifetime Roon license. I recently tried Roon 1.8 just to see and, well, it didn't last long - a very disappointing step backwards in SQ compared to Stylus. Much greater than the difference the iSilencers gave.

I still use Roon on my "transportable" system for music browsing and discovery, for which it is excellent. With different hardware and different configurations, I'm sure Roon would sound fine. So if you're happy with its SQ, then that's also fine. But if you're looking for a significant jump in SQ, then don't expect the jitterbug to do much compared to other potential changes to, say, server hardware and software. Sorry about that.

I also have a Roon lifetime sub and I now only use it for convenience in the kitchen. Which is a pity. When sound quality is more important than convenience I use iPeng or latterly I have been using HQPD + HQP + NAA to feed my mscaler but with all upsampling and all filters set to none in HQP. In other words just using the file selection and player function. These sort of things make big differences to sound quality in my opinion.

 

[muski]

A music recommendation for classical music fans...

I really appreciate how many musicians have live-streamed free concerts during COVID, but often find the audio quality almost unbearable. However, not so with the Bergen Phil's WinterMezzo concerts—the audio quality is some of the best I've heard for live-streaming (it's not 192/24, but it's approaching decent Redbook). Anyway, between the audio quality and the incredible performances by pianist Vikingur Olafsson, these are worth a watch. This concert is especially great (skip the first 8 minutes and dive into the Glassworks).

https://www.bergenphilive.no/video-...ezzo-víkingur-ólafsson-plays-mozart-and-bach/

muski

 

[edwardsean]

I also have a Roon lifetime sub and I now only use it for convenience in the kitchen. Which is a pity. When sound quality is more important than convenience I use iPeng or latterly I have been using HQPD + HQP + NAA to feed my mscaler but with all upsampling and all filters set to none in HQP. In other words just using the file selection and player function. These sort of things make big differences to sound quality in my opinion.

I think one of the most significant recent developments in audio has been the growing awareness of the importance of software. It's a really interesting situation because, at present, there is no ideal software. Roon is just in its own class in terms of user experience, but the developers are willing to compromise SQ to craft/curate that experience. As a result some have defected to other players in search of better sound.

HQP's client especially has been notable in drawing off more sophisticated users. Unfortunately, it has the exact opposite problem. The sonic render is exceptional, but the interface is not just stripped down, it's off-putting, at least for me. I can't get myself to click on it happily. I'm sure there are hardcore audiophiles who think sound is all that matters and UX is just window dressing. I disagree because we're not talking about software that controls, e.g., a drill press or box compactor. I care about sound because of the beauty of the experience of music as art. So, personally, the artistry of the UI/UX is part of the entire aesthetic experience.

If you are willing to get into a Linux based OS, I think Euphony will reward you handsomely. The developer's focus, first and foremost, is sound. However, the UI is relatively clean, organized, and accessible. It is not without its frustrating issues, but they have been very responsive to their users and hope to add a dedicated UI designer.

I hope this growing turn to software will bring more comprehensive solutions in the future!

 

[Glossator]

I think one of the most significant recent developments in audio has been the growing awareness of the importance of software. It's a really interesting situation because, at present, there is no ideal software. Roon is just in its own class in terms of user experience, but the developers are willing to compromise SQ to craft/curate that experience. As a result some have defected to other players in search of better sound.

HQP's client especially has been notable in drawing off more sophisticated users. Unfortunately, it has the exact opposite problem. The sonic render is exceptional, but the interface is not just stripped down, it's off-putting, at least for me. I can't get myself to click on it happily. I'm sure there are hardcore audiophiles who think sound is all that matters and UX is just window dressing. I disagree because we're not talking about software that controls, e.g., a drill press or box compactor. I care about sound because of the beauty of the experience of music as art. So, personally, the artistry of the UI/UX is part of the entire aesthetic experience.

If you are willing to get into a Linux based OS, I think Euphony will reward you handsomely. The developer's focus, first and foremost, is sound. However, the UI is relatively clean, organized, and accessible. It is not without its frustrating issues, but they have been very responsive to their users and hope to add a dedicated UI designer.

I hope this growing turn to software will bring more comprehensive solutions in the future!

Yes indeed. Following the same line of thought it will be interesting to see how InnuOS 2.0 sounds ...

 

[edwardsean]

Yes indeed. Following the same line of thought it will be interesting to see how InnuOS 2.0 sounds ...

Just FYI, some folks have loaded Euphony onto their Innuos servers and believe it to upgrade the sound quite a bit.

 

[Progisus]

I think one of the most significant recent developments in audio has been the growing awareness of the importance of software. It's a really interesting situation because, at present, there is no ideal software. Roon is just in its own class in terms of user experience, but the developers are willing to compromise SQ to craft/curate that experience. As a result some have defected to other players in search of better sound.

HQP's client especially has been notable in drawing off more sophisticated users. Unfortunately, it has the exact opposite problem. The sonic render is exceptional, but the interface is not just stripped down, it's off-putting, at least for me. I can't get myself to click on it happily. I'm sure there are hardcore audiophiles who think sound is all that matters and UX is just window dressing. I disagree because we're not talking about software that controls, e.g., a drill press or box compactor. I care about sound because of the beauty of the experience of music as art. So, personally, the artistry of the UI/UX is part of the entire aesthetic experience.

If you are willing to get into a Linux based OS, I think Euphony will reward you handsomely. The developer's focus, first and foremost, is sound. However, the UI is relatively clean, organized, and accessible. It is not without its frustrating issues, but they have been very responsive to their users and hope to add a dedicated UI designer.

I hope this growing turn to software will bring more comprehensive solutions in the future!

Roon’s latest 1.8 has attempted to better the sound and imho there is an improvement. I feel it my be slightly better than hqplayer with no upsampling or filtering. i.e. passthrough. The hqplayer UI is not an option for me.

 

[Glossator]

Just FYI, some folks have loaded Euphony onto their Innuos servers and believe it to upgrade the sound quite a bit.

Interesting - thank you! Being cautious will probably wait for Innuos ...

 

[sm60]

I think one of the most significant recent developments in audio has been the growing awareness of the importance of software. It's a really interesting situation because, at present, there is no ideal software. Roon is just in its own class in terms of user experience, but the developers are willing to compromise SQ to craft/curate that experience. As a result some have defected to other players in search of better sound.

HQP's client especially has been notable in drawing off more sophisticated users. Unfortunately, it has the exact opposite problem. The sonic render is exceptional, but the interface is not just stripped down, it's off-putting, at least for me. I can't get myself to click on it happily. I'm sure there are hardcore audiophiles who think sound is all that matters and UX is just window dressing. I disagree because we're not talking about software that controls, e.g., a drill press or box compactor. I care about sound because of the beauty of the experience of music as art. So, personally, the artistry of the UI/UX is part of the entire aesthetic experience.

If you are willing to get into a Linux based OS, I think Euphony will reward you handsomely. The developer's focus, first and foremost, is sound. However, the UI is relatively clean, organized, and accessible. It is not without its frustrating issues, but they have been very responsive to their users and hope to add a dedicated UI designer.

I hope this growing turn to software will bring more comprehensive solutions in the future!

While I applaud this work on building better streaming software clients and cores, the really challenging problem in high end audio continues to be speaker/room design. That is where the bulk of the distortion lies in digital audio systems (barring vinyl playback, which introduces huge levels of nonlinear distortions).
Amar Gopal Bose was a famous MIT professor legendary for his course on acoustics that he taught for many decades (he was also the brains behind Bose corporation, a successful multi billion dollar corporation). In one of his lectures, he demonstrated how significant room distortions were by simply playing a recording on a pair of high end speakers, recording the playback sound, then playing that 2nd generation sound and so on. Within about 5 iterations, the original recording vanished into noise, dominated by room modes. He also showed that doing the same process with average electronics produced no audible deterioration of the sound (Quad’s Peter Walker once ran a test where a dozen of his current dumping amplifiers were hooked up serially and no one could tell the difference from the 12 vs just one!).
Speakers (or headphones) and the room is where the challenge remains.

 

[Lgn3]

Roon’s latest 1.8 has attempted to better the sound and imho there is an improvement. I feel it my be slightly better than hqplayer with no upsampling or filtering. i.e. passthrough. The hqplayer UI is not an option for me.

I agree that Roon 1.8 is an improvement, in terms of SQ. Quite unexpected but immediately apparent, at least to my ears.

 

[Christer]

I think one of the most significant recent developments in audio has been the growing awareness of the importance of software. It's a really interesting situation because, at present, there is no ideal software. Roon is just in its own class in terms of user experience, but the developers are willing to compromise SQ to craft/curate that experience. As a result some have defected to other players in search of better sound.

HQP's client especially has been notable in drawing off more sophisticated users. Unfortunately, it has the exact opposite problem. The sonic render is exceptional, but the interface is not just stripped down, it's off-putting, at least for me. I can't get myself to click on it happily. I'm sure there are hardcore audiophiles who think sound is all that matters and UX is just window dressing. I disagree because we're not talking about software that controls, e.g., a drill press or box compactor. I care about sound because of the beauty of the experience of music as art. So, personally, the artistry of the UI/UX is part of the entire aesthetic experience.

If you are willing to get into a Linux based OS, I think Euphony will reward you handsomely. The developer's focus, first and foremost, is sound. However, the UI is relatively clean, organized, and accessible. It is not without its frustrating issues, but they have been very responsive to their users and hope to add a dedicated UI designer.

I hope this growing turn to software will bring more comprehensive solutions in the future!

Interesting to read that more listeners are beginning to pay more attention to SQ than the convenience of all those competing Streaming platforms like Roon, Tidal and what not ,again.

Personally I have very limited experience with Roon, all I can say is I was NOT terribly impressed by it even though I heard it via a very good system a few years ago.
Via my reference tracks it was clear that it was not transparent to me.
I have never tried Tidal or HQP.
I am a bit curious about HQP though.
But my old mbp is not speedy enough to run HQP.
Tidal I have no interest in whatsoever.
I am still mainly using Audirvana or Pure Music, and currently a cd transport+HMS which I bought for roughly 15$ second hand recently, and both platforms are good enough for me to EASILY hear for example the CLEAR and very obvious differences between Storm and Stream BNC cables via my Qutest/HMS and both my electrostatic speakers and headphones.
I use Storm mainly with some even" HMS´d" , otherwise a bit strident CDs. But I actually prefer Stream with most of my native masterfiles hi res downloads and particularly those where I very clearly DO Know what brings me closest to how things actually sounded live in the hall at sessions and how it sounded both as mic-feed and master playback.
At least in my systems, both via speakers and headphones Storm can sound a bit too dark especially with high strings and percussion.
It can dull the shimmer on cymbals more than what only the theoretical RF reduction could to my ears.
I have not a clue how there can be such a VERY obvious difference,but I know what I hear and I have enough hi res reference material to know I am not imagining things.
Yes storm is the more expensive and maybe with DAVE I would come to a different conclusion than with Qutest?

Or is Qutest actually better isolated against RF than DAVE thus leading to getting a bit too much of a good thing happening with Storm?

Someone mentioned ferrites being very frequency dependent and only suppressing certain frequencies and someone else said no! Ferrites can not influence the actual digital signal transmitted !
I can only report what I can very clearly hear.
And yes one thing is equally clear to me, both Storm and Stream are VERY obvious improvements over the BNCs supplied with HMS.
In some environments I have been those sound way too harsh.
Back on software:
Audirvana has all the functions I need as far as cataloging and search functions are concerned, and for what I stream I rely on the Symphony orchestras own platforms or YT.
"So Roon this" -"Roon that" -is of no interest whatsoever to me either.
PS Eagerly waiting to be hammered.
Cheers CC

 

[HeeBroG]

While I applaud this work on building better streaming software clients and cores, the really challenging problem in high end audio continues to be speaker/room design. That is where the bulk of the distortion lies in digital audio systems (barring vinyl playback, which introduces huge levels of nonlinear distortions).
Amar Gopal Bose was a famous MIT professor legendary for his course on acoustics that he taught for many decades (he was also the brains behind Bose corporation, a successful multi billion dollar corporation). In one of his lectures, he demonstrated how significant room distortions were by simply playing a recording on a pair of high end speakers, recording the playback sound, then playing that 2nd generation sound and so on. Within about 5 iterations, the original recording vanished into noise, dominated by room modes. He also showed that doing the same process with average electronics produced no audible deterioration of the sound (Quad’s Peter Walker once ran a test where a dozen of his current dumping amplifiers were hooked up serially and no one could tell the difference from the 12 vs just one!).
Speakers (or headphones) and the room is where the challenge remains.

Very interesting point but why is the room a challenge for headphones?

 

[griff500]

At least in my systems, both via speakers and headphones Storm can sound a bit too dark especially with high strings and percussion.
It can dull the shimmer on cymbals more than what only the theoretical RF reduction could to my ears.
I have not a clue how there can be such a VERY obvious difference,but I know what I hear and I have enough hi res reference material to know I am not imagining

Someone mentioned ferrites being very frequency dependent and only suppressing certain frequencies and someone else said no! Ferrites can not influence the actual digital signal transmitted !

Storm are silver cables and Stream are copper and that is the primary difference. I might have expected the Storm cables to sound somewhat brighter but we hear differently.

The ferrites are tuned to deal with certain frequencies of RFI as far as I understand it - there are no claims that it changes the data being transmitted.