Chord Electronics - Blu Mk. 2 - The Official Thread
Aug 21, 2017 at 10:15 PM Post #1,201 of 4,904
Don't make the assumption that DSP implementations won't make any difference to SQ because it is digital - as this is not the case. I have designed DSP EQ before, and getting 200 dB THD and noise with low frequency EQ proved extremely challenging; now that I know we need 350 dB performance to maintain depth and detail resolution, it's for sure that no current DSP implementation can't be audibly improved.
Fair enough. I've been thinking about this all day at work. So when I got home, I turned off DSP in Roon & JRiver, plugged in my headphones and I still hear the same effects, Roon sounded better than JRiver in my setup. I suspect I just have some issues with the custom-built Windows PC. JRiver is a full-blown program accessing the NAS in the network to play music (even though I'm only running Media Server and controlling it with JRemote). Roon Bridge is being spoon-fed music data from my main desktop in another room. That said, I can imagine the DSP implementation of Roon vs JRiver potentially being different too. It's not late enough to do headphone listening but since I already turned off all DSPs, might as well go full Head-Fi. With all that said, the musical enjoyment is not due to Roon/JRiver, it's all Blu2/DAVE (and the actual music). Thanks.
 
Aug 21, 2017 at 10:26 PM Post #1,202 of 4,904
I got the HE-1000's home earlier and tried them out and was quite blown away.
Of all the headphones I've heard paired with Chord DAVE, I have to agree with Romaz that HE1000v2 is the winning combo. Too bad my head is too small so I'll stick with my Utopia.

I believe that Rob doesn't believe in burn in, but I'm certain that my Blu II has really opened up now.
I can guarantee you the phenomena is related to brain burn-in that Rob Watts talked about, and not due to Blu2 burning in. Because for reasons I don't really want to go into, I had "brain burn-in" after listening to Blu2 for a while. And then I switched over to a brand new unit and I did not notice any sonic differences. I think for me, as I've mentioned in an earlier post, when Blu2 first arrived, I'm hearing all the improvements separately and distinctly and then one day my brain just gets it suddenly and hears the improvements as an integrated whole, as a fantastic musical performance.
 
Aug 22, 2017 at 12:02 AM Post #1,203 of 4,904
Of all the headphones I've heard paired with Chord DAVE, I have to agree with Romaz that HE1000v2 is the winning combo. Too bad my head is too small so I'll stick with my Utopia.

I can guarantee you the phenomena is related to brain burn-in that Rob Watts talked about, and not due to Blu2 burning in. Because for reasons I don't really want to go into, I had "brain burn-in" after listening to Blu2 for a while. And then I switched over to a brand new unit and I did not notice any sonic differences. I think for me, as I've mentioned in an earlier post, when Blu2 first arrived, I'm hearing all the improvements separately and distinctly and then one day my brain just gets it suddenly and hears the improvements as an integrated whole, as a fantastic musical performance.

Whilst I haven't done a comparison yet, my initial feeling is that with the lesser gear (AK240, Mojo, Burson Conductor) with which I do use headphones, the HE-1000's don't sound as good as my HD800's but the pairing with BluDave is just amazing. Unfortunately, I very rarely use headphones with my main system so I may well be better off with my HD800's - or become a headphone convert!

Regarding the brain burn in, you may well be right, who knows.
 
Aug 22, 2017 at 12:36 AM Post #1,204 of 4,904
For those who intend to use digital room correction and/or DSP EQ with the DAVE/Blu 2, do you have any recommendation or tried any of the available EQ software in the market to be able to come to a conclusion as to which might do the least damage to the signal going into the DAVE/Blu 2?

One can hope that DSP EQ (with a nice graphical user interface accessible directly or via PC) was available as a feature for the DAVE/Blu 2 in future :)

No I have not tried any EQ, and perhaps my worries about DSP EQ is over played; but my experience with designing EQ was that it was hard to maintain 200 dB performance; and all designers of DSP software would make the perfectly reasonable assumption that 200 dB was good enough; the reality is that for digital to be perfectly transparent we need much better performance than that. I was just making the point that I would certainly expect different DSP EQ software to sound very different, and to go for the program that has the best rendition of depth.
 
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Aug 22, 2017 at 5:01 AM Post #1,205 of 4,904
I would be more specific as I don't believe any golden rules for room acoustics. I think that's why I usually just recommend people to read Jim Smith's Get Better Sound. You can verify the effects of a seat near the back wall with a real-time analyzer or just a microphone with REW (PCs) or Audiotools (iOS). The issues are two-fold. One is that you're more likely (though not necessarily) to have unwanted bass peaks and troughs right at the back wall. Particularly, I find you'll have it in the very low bass but sometimes that extra peak gives speakers a little boost or that little trough actually reduces speaker bass boost by design or positioning. I'm lucky that way in my home that I can get away with having my seat at the back wall. The second problem is first reflections from wall behind the ear. The solution is to put some absorbant or diffusing materials where the tweeter points to on the wall. But the reality is that even if you're moving the seat 1-1.5m away from the back wall, you can still get this effect. It may be reduced as a result but you can potentially get a completely different (and more uneven) bass frequency response, and you will still get first reflections coming from the back wall if you don't put some diffusing or absorbing material on the wall.

I believe in golden rules for room acoustics. Room acoustics is a well-known scientific field and not just something audiophiles care about. We have special acoustic engineers with genuine computer programs (not the ones hobbyist normally have) that can calculate very well how a room will sound and reflect in different FR and playing on different SPL. Then building a cinema or an opera house they don’t just go by trial and error. Reflections, vibration and other room acoustics are well known and so is how to reduce them. Sure I have tried to get it to sound good while sitting near a back wall in my own and friends home in the past and its sound like crap. In all the hifi shows and hifi shops I have been to, no one with good sound have placed the sit next to the back wall, no one. So it’s my number one role.

I can assure you that no one in the acoustic treatment business or people with real speaker setup experience will place the listening position very close to a back wall if SQ is the goal and other solutions can be chosen. The first reflections is so close in time near the wall that no absorbents can cure it. Too much damping kills the sound! To place the listening position 1,5 to 2 meter away will not solve all acoustic problem and room treatment to damp, trap and diffuse are mostly necessary as well.
 
Aug 22, 2017 at 5:28 AM Post #1,206 of 4,904
No I have not tried any EQ, and perhaps my worries about DSP EQ is over played; but my experience with designing EQ was that it was hard to maintain 200 dB performance; and all designers of DSP software would make the perfectly reasonable assumption that 200 dB was good enough; the reality is that for digital to be perfectly transparent we need much better performance than that. I was just making the point that I would certainly expect different DSP EQ software to sound very different, and to go for the program that has the best rendition of depth.

It's interesting Rob that when the Sonar DAW (I think they are owned by Tascam) went to true 64bit processing (from 32bit) for its mastering tools 10 years ago the unanimous verdict of producers using the tools was 'imaging precision had taken a serious jump forward'. We can hear from Dave and Blu II that there is clearly something in what you are saying.
 
Aug 22, 2017 at 6:10 AM Post #1,207 of 4,904
I believe we do "get used" to a particular sound, humans are very adaptable creatures but equipment does have a break in period analog cables and loudspeakers in particular due to the dielectrics in the cable and capacitors. Most of my equipment "sounds" better with an hour of warmup and my spectral preamp took a couple of weeks to break in Marc
 
Aug 22, 2017 at 6:33 AM Post #1,208 of 4,904
I believe we do "get used" to a particular sound, humans are very adaptable creatures but equipment does have a break in period analog cables and loudspeakers in particular due to the dielectrics in the cable and capacitors. Most of my equipment "sounds" better with an hour of warmup and my spectral preamp took a couple of weeks to break in Marc

Marc,

When you say, "equipment does have a break in period analog cables and loudspeakers in particular due to the dielectrics in the cable and capacitors" , it might perhaps be more accurate to say that you think this is the case!

I'm not wanting to start a big debate about this becasue after all this is a Blu 2 thread but . . . . . . . .

Nick
 
Aug 22, 2017 at 7:50 AM Post #1,209 of 4,904
Actually I KNOW! I've been designing loudspeakers for a lifetime, early on I prototyped a crossover, tested it and then gave it a listen, it sounded harsh I thought I didn't care for a particular brand of capacitors I was wrong after 25 hours of music and pinknoise they sounded nice! I've been doing this for a long time and I can state 2 things, Audio equipment does break in, electronics to a lesser extent than cables and passive crossovers and people do get accustomed (conditioned to the sound) to their audio system. Try this experiment buy 2 sets of the same cable say between your preamp and power amp, play one for a week 24/7 then have your wife listen to the "broken in" cable and the new one I sure (if your system is resolving enough) she will hear a difference. Now its up to you to chose what sound you like because it's a hobby. My system does take a few minutes to warm up and sound "different" :)
 
Aug 22, 2017 at 8:53 PM Post #1,210 of 4,904
The Chord Blu Mk. 2 is the embodiment of what all audiophiles are striving for: A compelling and accurate reproduction of the original recording. If you’ve canceled your order, I would reconsider. You get perfect resolution, tone, timbre, velvety contours, layering, infinite soundstage, and imaging. There are always tradeoffs but with the Blu2, you get all the important pieces in one package. With the proper cables in place…there’s not a single thing I could knock it on. We’re usually “content” with our systems but deep down inside, we always feel there’s something missing. With the BluDAVE, this notion never cross my mind at all. The Chord Blu Mk. 2 is perfect and sets the bar very high for digital audio. Needless to say, it will be receiving Audio Bacon’s “Finest Cuts” award.


Hi praise indeed!
 
Aug 22, 2017 at 9:27 PM Post #1,211 of 4,904
question for those knowledgeable about cables....i am currently using the cables provided with the blu 2 to connect to the dave....the bnc cables.......are these good enough or will better cables make a difference?...if so any suggestions?....thanks all!
 
Aug 23, 2017 at 3:22 AM Post #1,212 of 4,904
The Chord Blu Mk. 2 is the embodiment of what all audiophiles are striving for: A compelling and accurate reproduction of the original recording. If you’ve canceled your order, I would reconsider. You get perfect resolution, tone, timbre, velvety contours, layering, infinite soundstage, and imaging. There are always tradeoffs but with the Blu2, you get all the important pieces in one package. With the proper cables in place…there’s not a single thing I could knock it on. We’re usually “content” with our systems but deep down inside, we always feel there’s something missing. With the BluDAVE, this notion never cross my mind at all. The Chord Blu Mk. 2 is perfect and sets the bar very high for digital audio. Needless to say, it will be receiving Audio Bacon’s “Finest Cuts” award.


Hi praise indeed!

I think he liked it! 'Bottomline: It just sounds like a completely different DAC and reproduced recordings with the most realism I’ve ever heard on any system'.

Link is here: https://audiobacon.net/2017/08/22/c...d-transport-review-digital-dressed-in-analog/

He's still in the honeymoon phase, but I'd agree with his general observations. Nice to see the BluDave nomenclature catching on.
 
Aug 23, 2017 at 3:27 AM Post #1,213 of 4,904
question for those knowledgeable about cables....i am currently using the cables provided with the blu 2 to connect to the dave....the bnc cables.......are these good enough or will better cables make a difference?...if so any suggestions?....thanks all!

A contentious subject, and I'm not knowledgeable, but different cables most definitely do give different results. How big is that difference and whether it is a positive or negative difference, only the user can determine so I'd say you should find a dealer who will lend you some to try out. The only problem with that is that BNC cables are not always easy to come by, especially two of the same length.

I tried a few and one pair was very dark and laid back whilst another were very bright and forward.
 
Aug 23, 2017 at 5:08 AM Post #1,214 of 4,904
The Chord Blu Mk. 2 is the embodiment of what all audiophiles are striving for: A compelling and accurate reproduction of the original recording. If you’ve canceled your order, I would reconsider. You get perfect resolution, tone, timbre, velvety contours, layering, infinite soundstage, and imaging. There are always tradeoffs but with the Blu2, you get all the important pieces in one package. With the proper cables in place…there’s not a single thing I could knock it on. We’re usually “content” with our systems but deep down inside, we always feel there’s something missing. With the BluDAVE, this notion never cross my mind at all. The Chord Blu Mk. 2 is perfect and sets the bar very high for digital audio. Needless to say, it will be receiving Audio Bacon’s “Finest Cuts” award.


Hi praise indeed!

And it saves lives too!
 
Aug 23, 2017 at 6:47 AM Post #1,215 of 4,904
question for those knowledgeable about cables....i am currently using the cables provided with the blu 2 to connect to the dave....the bnc cables.......are these good enough or will better cables make a difference?...if so any suggestions?....thanks all!

I belong to the camp that wholeheartedly believes that cables matter. Theories abound regarding why cables should or shouldn't make a difference. Like with everything else in audio, I have learned to become empirical in my approach to cables. Either I can hear a consistent difference or I can't...theories be damned. If I question what I hear, then I blind test. I belong to a group of audiophiles that gets together regularly. We listen to music, we listen to different pieces of equipment that people bring in, and we compare. We have become quite proficient at blind testing. It is this process that has led many within our group to have purchased a DAVE. We come from different backgrounds. Some of us own modest headphone setups and a few own 2-channel speaker setups with a value in excess of $100k. Rarely are we unanimous about our preferences but one thing we are unanimous about is that cables can make a huge difference and that DAVE is not immune to them.

My repeated experiences testing cabling with DAVE is that analog cabling makes more of a difference than digital cabling but digital cabling can still yield meaningful differences that are very much worth pursuing. I hold the belief that all cables cause harm and the best that a cable can do is to cause no harm. Since there is no such thing as a perfect cable, then it becomes a matter of what degree of compromise we are willing to accept with our cables. As an inexpensive example, consider Uptone Audio's USPCB A/B adapter. This is a "hard USB cable" that is included with Uptone Audio's Iso Regen but can be purchased separately for $35. Essentially, it is a 4-layer PCB that incorporates a microstrip line for impedance control and the various layers are used for shielding and ground. Think of it as a circuit board extension rather than a "hard USB cable" because it has been designed to perfectly relay a USB waveform without altering signal integrity (and this has been confirmed with published eye charts). In short, this is probably as close as there is to a "perfect" USB cable or as close as there is to a USB cable that causes no harm. Now go ahead and compare this inexpensive $35 USB "cable" to the USB cable you currently are using with your DAVE or BLU2 and regardless of how much or how little you paid for your cable, I would be willing to bet that you'll hear a notable difference with regards to greater clarity and immediacy in favor of the Uptone adapter. As another example, I am testing a prototype USB cable from a certain manufacturer that incorporates a passive filter block that filters harmonic frequencies between 100kHz and 1GHz (these are not frequencies that DAVE's or BLU2's galvanic isolation has any impact on). It will soon go on sale for about $1k and while expensive, I bet you'll be impressed by how much more airy and dimensional the presentation becomes. I assure you golden ear not necessary and that these findings can be consistently discerned even under blind testing.

Does this suggest that DAVE's (or BLU2's) galvanic isolation is ineffective or that pulse array DACs aren't truly immune to jitter as Rob says they are? On the contrary. To date, I have yet to hear a DAC that is as immune to the source as DAVE, however, my experience over the past few months (as detailed in depth on CA) suggests that while no upstream source sounds horrible on DAVE (as I have experienced with all my other DACs), some sources can sound SO much better than a basic PC or MAC and that digital cabling can make a significant difference. While I have no objective measurements to prove my theory on why this is the case, my observations, which have been supported by the observations of many other DAVE owners, suggests that upstream components and cables can impart irreparable damage to the audio waveform that are beyond DAVE's or any other component's capabilities to undo. In other words, at some point, even with all of DAVE's defenses, it becomes incapable of discerning the original waveform from artifact that has been "baked in."

With regards to whether the digital BNC cables that connect BLU2 to DAVE make a difference, I cannot offer a first-hand opinion because my BLU2 has not yet arrived but I will shocked if they don't. What is a mystery to me is that I was among the first to have heard the BLU2 back in January at CES and was told that I was among the first to have placed an order with the North American distributor as I placed my order while at CES. Nearly 8 months later, I'm still waiting for my BLU2. The good news is that my BLU2 has finally arrived stateside and I should receive it next week. Regardless of the reason for the delay, I have no doubt that BLU2 will have been worth the wait and laying in wait for my BLU2 are various digital BNC cables ready for comparison testing ranging from a $36 pair from Blue Jeans Cables to a $19k pair from High Fidelity Cables.
 

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