[Triode User]

Hindsight is always 20/20: The streaming music business in the US market is still very much evolving. For example, in February 2019 TIDAL and major record labels such as Atlantic, 2L and others began distributing some newly recorded albums only in MQA 48kHZ 24 bit, MQA 48kHz (see Audiophile Style for more discussions). Meanwhile Qobuz US which launched in February 2019 has struggled miserably to onboard suppliers and the selection is wholly inadequate. And then there's the myriad of problems with the methods TIDAL and Qobuz allow for artists/labels to submit albums and it invites serious questions about the quality and provenance of those recordings. Audiophile grade network endpoint and streamer solutions from Innous, The Linear Solution, Nucklehead, Sonore, SoTM, etc. aren't much better and are still in their infancy. With so much uncertainty in lossless streaming, the physical CD is an irreplaceable benchmark.

The Blu Mk II with an integrated M Scaler, Phillips CD Pro 2 mechanism, and USB input may have been the best approach in hindsight. Each time I see an album disappear from Qobuz US or one appear only as MQA in TIDAL, I admire my physical CD collection and the Blu Mk II that much more. Thank you @Rob Watts for seeing the future before anyone else and that's why I'm a 2x Blu Mk II owner.

Closing the lid and pressing play.

I love my Blu Mk II. Quite a few of my cable orders are from customers buying a new Blu Mk II so clearly there are many who agree with you (me included). And it is strange that despite the rumours of people ditching them to buy the HMS there don’t seem to be many for sale second hand.

 

[Christer]

Hindsight is always 20/20: The streaming music business in the US market is still very much evolving. For example, in February 2019 TIDAL and major record labels such as Atlantic, 2L and others began distributing some newly recorded albums only in MQA 48kHZ 24 bit, MQA 48kHz (see Audiophile Style for more discussions). Meanwhile Qobuz US which launched in February 2019 has struggled miserably to onboard suppliers and the selection is wholly inadequate. And then there's the myriad of problems with the methods TIDAL and Qobuz allow for artists/labels to submit albums and it invites serious questions about the quality and provenance of those recordings. Audiophile grade network endpoint and streamer solutions from Innous, The Linear Solution, Nucklehead, Sonore, SoTM, etc. aren't much better and are still in their infancy. With so much uncertainty in lossless streaming, the physical CD is an irreplaceable benchmark.

The Blu Mk II with an integrated M Scaler, Phillips CD Pro 2 mechanism, and USB input may have been the best approach in hindsight. Each time I see an album disappear from Qobuz US or one appear only as MQA in TIDAL, I admire my physical CD collection and the Blu Mk II that much more. Thank you @Rob Watts for seeing the future before anyone else and that's why I'm a 2x Blu Mk II owner.

Closing the lid and pressing play.

Each to his own I guess . But personally I pay little attention to either of those two options for my category of music which is mainly western classical music.
Only where the musical performance and interpretation is so superior that SQ becomes much less important would I choose rbcd.
There are by now, thousands and thousands of albums of both newly recorded in hi res available as hi res native masterfiles both pcm and dsd and growing number of hi res tranfser releases of a lot of the GREAT classic recordings from the analogue era that one can buy as hi res downloads from several quite reliable sources.
With new material offered on a daily basis from sites like the German site Hi Res audio and e.classical.com and others there are much better options than the above two.
And even Qobuz has also got the download option available.
You are not forced to stream it is your choice.
At least not yet.
Why stream when you can own your music?

But I have yet to hear an rbcd version of a new hi res release where I would prefer the rbcd disc version.

Yes rbcd CAN sound very good indeed via M Scaling, much better than I thought possible only a couple of years ago.

But it does NOT sound as good as well recorded and mastered native HI RES to me.
I have also made close comparisons with masters I have both been at the sessions of and have in different qualities and rbcd is still a clear notch below hi res to my ears in each such case.
With well recorded native hi res recorded dalbums my choice is always the HI RES Download over both rbcd and any of the confusing and binding subscription based streaming options many seem to use around here.

Rbcd even M Scaled, is imho still a compromised format and some streaming options seem to be as well.
Hence both rbcd and streaming are both options I avoid when I really want to truly enjoy my favourite music and recordings.
I am not sure what Rob will say if I quoute him again?
But when I asked him last year about how important the rbcd capability of BLU2 over a separate M Scaler was,he said you won't miss it,ie the rbcd capacity.
He does not play rbcd phsycal discs himself he said.

The true magic lies in the M Scaling and since it works with hi res as well, why compromise?

In other words there is still a gap between hi res and rbcd. But you may need very well recorded hi res,large scale symphonic acoustic music to hear the difference.

As I have said repeatedly before I still suspect rbcd's inherent bandwidth limiting is at least one culprit.
Or simply a combination of not enough bits ie 16 bits only, compared to hi res' 24 and far too low a sampling rate to capture a symphony orchestra in all its acoustic glory.
PS And whenever I want to admire my record collection I look at my big LPs.



Cheers Controversial Christer

 

[Triode User]

Each to his own I guess . But personally I pay little attention to either of those two options for my category of music which is mainly western classical music.
Only where the musical performance and interpretation is so superior that SQ becomes much less important would I choose rbcd.
There are by now, thousands and thousands of albums of both newly recorded in hi res available as hi res native masterfiles both pcm and dsd and growing number of hi res tranfser releases of a lot of the GREAT classic recordings from the analogue era that one can buy as hi res downloads from several quite reliable sources.
With new material offered on a daily basis from sites like the German site Hi Res audio and e.classical.com and others there are much better options than the above two.
And even Qobuz has also got the download option available.
You are not forced to stream it is your choice.
At least not yet.
Why stream when you can own your music?

But I have yet to hear an rbcd version of a new hi res release where I would prefer the rbcd disc version.

Yes rbcd CAN sound very good indeed via M Scaling, much better than I thought possible only a couple of years ago.

But it does NOT sound as good as well recorded and mastered native HI RES to me.
I have also made close comparisons with masters I have both been at the sessions of and have in different qualities and rbcd is still a clear notch below hi res to my ears in each such case.
With well recorded native hi res recorded dalbums my choice is always the HI RES Download over both rbcd and any of the confusing and binding subscription based streaming options many seem to use around here.

Rbcd even M Scaled, is imho still a compromised format and some streaming options seem to be as well.
Hence both rbcd and streaming are both options I avoid when I really want to truly enjoy my favourite music and recordings.
I am not sure what Rob will say if I quoute him again?
But when I asked him last year about how important the rbcd capability of BLU2 over a separate M Scaler was,he said you won't miss it,ie the rbcd capacity.
He does not play rbcd phsycal discs himself he said.

The true magic lies in the M Scaling and since it works with hi res as well, why compromise?

In other words there is still a gap between hi res and rbcd. But you may need very well recorded hi res,large scale symphonic acoustic music to hear the difference.

As I have said repeatedly before I still suspect rbcd's inherent bandwidth limiting is at least one culprit.
Or simply a combination of not enough bits ie 16 bits only, compared to hi res' 24 and far too low a sampling rate to capture a symphony orchestra in all its acoustic glory.
PS And whenever I want to admire my record collection I look at my big LPs.



Cheers Controversial Christer

You are discussing your personal choice for the purchase of new material and that is not the same for many of us who already own hundreds or even in some cases thousands of CDs. Just because you (or Rob) do not play CDs that does not mean that there are not others who do. Some of my CDs are 25 + years old and I take great pleasure from playing them on the Blu Mk II.

Of course I also purchase hires where available and the Blu Mk II is equally happy to do the MScaler magic with those. I refute by the way that one "may need very well recorded hi res, large scale symphonic acoustic music to hear the difference". A favourite recent album is Laid Black by Marcus Miller at 48k, 24bit, and the differences are clear even though it is not "large scale symphonic acoustic".

What you cannot deny is that many people are still buying a new Blu Mk II. That is their choice. I suspect that you might also prefer if we did not listen to some of the music which we like on the basis that you would say that the MScaler is wasted on it but somehow you have to accept that your point of view is in fact just a point of view and may not be shared by others.

 

[analogmusic]

Man goes to Harrods
Buys latest Oled TV capable of perfect blacks
Still looks at his old CRT TV
Admires that old CRT and says now that’s what I call a real TV Even though Harrods explains that the Oled is 4K capable with Dolby vision. Man shakes his head and keeps talking about his CRT and how the Oled doesn’t have the same picture... the CRT has a resolution of 480p so no wonder it looks different

Another man goes to Harrods
Buys Mscaler for his Dave
Throws his record player in the skip and his Vinyl Donated to Charity. The Mscaler is here and it delivers !

Some folks just live in the past no matter what..

 

[Triode User]

Another man goes to Harrods
Buys Mscaler for his Dave

Are you sure? A Chord Electronics dealer search does not show Harrods as an Official Chord dealer.

 

[analogmusic]

Hint to Christer: the Mscaler to my ears is about transient accuracy.....

The mscaler filter looks back and in the future to 1.4 seconds of music .....

 

[Christer]

Hint to Christer: the Mscaler to my ears is about transient accuracy.....

The mscaler filter looks back and in the future to 1.4 seconds of music .....

You are discussing your personal choice for the purchase of new material and that is not the same for many of us who already own hundreds or even in some cases thousands of CDs. Just because you (or Rob) do not play CDs that does not mean that there are not others who do. Some of my CDs are 25 + years old and I take great pleasure from playing them on the Blu Mk II.

Of course I also purchase hires where available and the Blu Mk II is equally happy to do the MScaler magic with those. I refute by the way that one "may need very well recorded hi res, large scale symphonic acoustic music to hear the difference". A favourite recent album is Laid Black by Marcus Miller at 48k, 24bit, and the differences are clear even though it is not "large scale symphonic acoustic".

What you cannot deny is that many people are still buying a new Blu Mk II. That is their choice. I suspect that you might also prefer if we did not listen to some of the music which we like on the basis that you would say that the MScaler is wasted on it but somehow you have to accept that your point of view is in fact just a point of view and may not be shared by others.

Hello, yes of course I am discussing from my personal point of view and so are you and so was iDesign.
My post was indeed my personal take on the things he mentioned. What else did you expect it to be?

I just wanted to point to a fact often misunderstood here,ie that with everything else equal, rbcd is still not as realistic as hi res even employing an M Scaler,be it the one in BLU2 or the HMS.
Nada mas.
By all means do enjoy your cds, I am not trying to deny you or anyone else full enjoyment of whatever music they like genre wise either.
I have reasons to believe that I will enjoy some of mine or at least the rbcd layer of some of my pcm recorded SACDs via HMS possibly more than playing the SACD layers via my SACD players, when I return home later this spring.
I may even start to look for cheap rbcds in thrift shops if I find recordings I want so much that SQ is not the paramount issue.
But with HMS now a fact I would personally would never consider buying a BLU2.
I don't need one and there are other MUCH cheaper cd transports that can do the same job as the cd drive in BLU2.
Besides I rip the few noteworthy rbcds I have so far.
But those are my personal preferences and your preferences are your preferences, and here we share our different views in posts such as the one you just quoted and my response to you.
Cheers Controversial Christer

 

[iDesign]

Hello, yes of course I am discussing from my personal point of view and so are you and so was iDesign.
My post was indeed my personal take on the things he mentioned. What else did you expect it to be?

I just wanted to point to a fact often misunderstood here,ie that with everything else equal, rbcd is still not as realistic as hi res even employing an M Scaler,be it the one in BLU2 or the HMS.
Nada mas.
By all means do enjoy your cds, I am not trying to deny you or anyone else full enjoyment of whatever music they like genre wise either.
I have reasons to believe that I will enjoy some of mine or at least the rbcd layer of some of my pcm recorded SACDs via HMS possibly more than playing the SACD layers via my SACD players, when I return home later this spring.
I may even start to look for cheap rbcds in thrift shops if I find recordings I want so much that SQ is not the paramount issue.
But with HMS now a fact I would personally would never consider buying a BLU2.
I don't need one and there are other MUCH cheaper cd transports that can do the same job as the cd drive in BLU2.
Besides I rip the few noteworthy rbcds I have so far.
But those are my personal preferences and your preferences are your preferences, and here we share our different views in posts such as the one you just quoted and my response to you.
Cheers Controversial Christer

Keep in mind that you are not in the US and the availability of streaming or downloadable music is not the same as in other markets due to rights issues. I stated a few illustrative examples of recent changes TIDAL and Qobuz US made in the month of February alone to demonstrate how lossless streaming continues to be in flux. No, I don’t feel subscription based or download services are fully matured in the US nor do I feel any have complete enough catalogs. As it relates to classical, I have one of the largest known private collections of rare and out of print classical violin recordings and the majority of those albums are not available and will never be available in streaming or download services because of rights issues. I have spent some 30 years sourcing early and out of print recordings and the Blu Mk II makes sense because I have tens of thousands of physical albums (CD and LP). I also listen to newly released music across a wide range of genres and the reality of more and more labels beginning to supply ONLY MQA encoded files to TIDAL, Qobuz, Spotify, Apple Music etc. is disconcerting. In my post I also alluded to the fact computer and server based audio (specifically USB) itself is riddled with issues that make it imperfect and undesirable. Initially I didn't see the need for a CD transport in the M Scaler but given the worrisome changes record labels and streaming services made in February 2019, the Blu Mk II’s ability to play CDs natively is proving to be useful-- that is the point of my original post which you missed.

 

[analogmusic]

christer

The in built CD transport in blu2 is superb.

I don’t want to put another man goes to Harrods post here but yet I find you clearly need to understand the issues that led to the creation of the blu2 and Mscaler

There is an article on the chord website which clearly explains it

And keep in mind that Rob is working on Davina still

 

[Christer]

Keep in mind that you are not in the US and the availability of streaming or downloadable music is not the same as in other markets due to rights issues. I stated a few illustrative examples of recent changes TIDAL and Qobuz US made in the month of February alone to demonstrate how lossless streaming continues to be in flux. No, I don’t feel subscription based or download services are fully matured in the US nor do I feel any have complete enough catalogs. As it relates to classical, I have one of the largest known private collections of rare and out of print classical violin recordings and the majority of those albums are not available and will never be available in streaming or download services because of rights issues. I have spent some 30 years sourcing early and out of print recordings and the Blu Mk II makes sense because I have tens of thousands of physical albums (CD and LP). I also listen to newly released music across a wide range of genres and the reality of more and more labels beginning to supply ONLY MQA encoded files to TIDAL, Qobuz, Spotify, Apple Music etc. is disconcerting. In my post I also alluded to the fact computer and server based audio (specifically USB) itself is riddled with issues that make it imperfect and undesirable. Initially I didn't see the need for a CD transport in the M Scaler but given the worrisome changes record labels and streaming services made in February 2019, the Blu Mk II’s ability to play CDs natively is proving to be useful-- that is the point of my original post which you missed.

Hello iDesign,

Not to worry chicken curry, I fully understand your point of view and I AM fully aware of the sad situation in the US where commercial interests always seem to take precedence over all other interests.


This fact was clearly obvious already in the analogue era.

US LP pressings were generally much worse than the European ones and often made from mastertape copies on inferior vinyl.
No wonder LP had got such a bad rep among the masses in the USA.
Even the Russians often made better pressings than the USA.
Quality aware companies like Telarc and Sheffield Labs often had their LPs pressed abroad.

Back to the Present.

What if some of these competing platforms and streaming formats go bust in the next inevitable economic crisis?
What will all those who have invested in streaming solutions do then?
TIDAL seems to hang a bit loose,and even Qobuz was near collapse not long ago.
And frankly who really needs MQA more than the people behind it?

But unlike you with a more restricted taste in music, I am really amazed over how many Great Classic Recordings from the European Majors like DGG or DECCA Philips and some old EMI Classics that are now becoming available as hi res downloads on an almost daily basis.

Albeit often at a price I normally consider too high for re-released material that in most cases has already earned the labels lots of money.

But both eclassical.com and Highresaudio and quite often Qobuz too have tempting offers on these and many newly recorded albums too.
I bought the entire Ring from DGG/KarajanBPO for roughly 40€ a couple of years ago.

And BIS has got ALL of their new recordings at special offer price for a limited time just after release.
Most of them sell for around 10-12 USD for the first few weeks.
And unlike with rbcd physical discs if you pay for the hi res version,you get not only hi res stereo one most often in 24/96, but also since quite a while also the mch version as well plus rbcd and mp3 thrown in.
No plastic involved either.
.
And Robert von Bahr's site sells music without any restrictions internationally all over the world as far as I know.
For me it simply doesn't get better than that.



Especially DGG/Universal seem to be digging deep into their archives now, way beyond their main Goldmine the Karajan Era, with both Fricsay's and Markewich's recordings turning up online as hi res releases.

Yesterday Ferenc Fricsay's 1959 DGG recording of Mozart's masterwork Don Giovanni was released over at Highresaudio.

And I already have Böhm's early 60s recording of Die Zauberflöte both in its original LP format and as hi res download from the same site. And turning 90 this year a lot of Haitink's still good recordings for Philips are coming as hi res downloads too.
His classic Bruckner/ Mahler cycles from the Concertgebouw are just out in hi res and as downloads.

And talking about the violin,Wolfgang Schneiderhahn's classic recording of Beethoven's violin concerto which I already have on two LPs is also avalable as hi res download from Highresaudio , and so are his recordings for DGG of Mozart's five Violin Concertos.

As far as MY personal needs are concerned the situation could hardly be better than it is now.

I can now download direct from mastertape hi res transfers of some of the best recordings of the greatest music I know.
And once downloaded I am completely independent of whether the internet is working or not.
No subscription bills to worry about, no need to worry if the company I am paying will still be there and still loves me " when I am 64"

As an example again, via M Scaler long stretches of Karajan's mid 60s DGG recording of Wagner's opera Das Rheingold sounds almost as if it was recorded only a few months ago with little evidence of its age and the same goes for lots of other classics from both DECCA and EMI ranging back into the late 50s in some cases.
Tech standards were limited compared to today's best standards. But the recording engineers mostly knew how acoustic music sounds live in a real hall unlike some of those working today unfortunately.

I use a mbp on my travels, but I have never bought any music from Apple and have no plans ever to do so either.
Nor would I touch TIDAL or MQA.
I am very happy living both in Europe and Asia.
And regarding spinning rbcds HMS can be connected to any transport or cd player with optical out so I am ok there as well for my limited needs.
PS Why Karajan in his sports car ?
Just curious.

Finally a hint to "analoge music", if I move to Asia permanently I may consider selling off, not giving away my not inconsiderable LP collection, there are some gems that would fetch decent money in there. How about the Beatles LPs in mint quality? Or some of Sheffield Labs out of print Direct Cuts?
I know those alone could fetch decent money.
But not until I have "digitized" my most treasured gems.

And yes the transport in BLU2 is probably one of the best from a tech point of view. But unfortunately it comes both at an exhorbitant price and is more than a bit cumbersome to use without putting fingerprints on your CDs compared to most of the much cheaper competition.
You basically have to aquire a special technique to drop the discs into place without scratching them.
For me it was never an option.

Cheers Controversial Christer.

 

[Sound Trooper]

Hey folks, just wondering if your Blu MkII would turn into standby mode by pressing the standby button on the remote?

 

[ecwl]

Hey folks, just wondering if your Blu MkII would turn into standby mode by pressing the standby button on the remote?

Yes and no. Standby mode turns off the CD player but technically the M-Scaler is still running. So if you feed Blu2 with S/PDIF or USB signals, it will still upsample the music.

 

[Sound Trooper]

Yes and no. Standby mode turns off the CD player but technically the M-Scaler is still running. So if you feed Blu2 with S/PDIF or USB signals, it will still upsample the music.

Thanks. When you press the standby button on the remote, would the display on the Blu turn off?

 

[Triode User]

Thanks. When you press the standby button on the remote, would the display on the Blu turn off?

Yes but it still MScales the signal fed into the usb input.

 

[Sound Trooper]

Yes but it still MScales the signal fed into the usb input.

Thanks.
Strange, the display on mine doesn't turn off. Hope I don't have to send it back to Chord.