[deejayen]

I've currently got HD600, but wouldn't mind something better. I've always thought the HD600 was a bit warm and woolly - nice for listening to music, but for whatever reason recordings I make with them don't sound that great on other systems. However, I'm reading that the HD600 is supposed to be neutral, so perhaps it's my ears! I've downloaded Sonarworks 4, so perhaps that's all I need.

However, at the weekend I popped into a HiFi shop when I was visiting a city, and despite saying I was probably more interested in open back cans, the salesman demoed three closed backs. They were all plugged into a Moon 430HA - he said the source was at least CD quality.

First up was the Meze 99 Classics - it sounded pleasant and was light an comfy. The bass was pronounced, and not that tight. I'm not sure it let me hear completely into the mix.

Next was a Pioneer SE-Monitor 5. This sounded really weird after the Meze. Bass was non-existent, and the mid-range was quite honky and thin.

The final one was just that - Final Sonorous VI. I can't remember much about this one, other than that the treble seemed quite nice and detailed (could hear an acoustic guitarist breathing etc.) Like the Pioneer it was quite heavy.

At that point I was surprised by how different the headphones sounded, and was beginning to doubt that my ears could pick out 'neutral'.

Also, I'd expected the Moon amp to be fantastic, but I'm not sure that any of the headphones in combination with it were any better than what I already have.

I'm a bit confused about how to pick something which is going to better for me than the HD600.

 

[Soundguyrob]

Almost every studio I've been in (including my own) has at least one pair of AKG 271 closed cans. They are quite neutral and seem to be a pretty standard item for tracking and for checking mixes. I don't know about mixing on them (or on headphones at all, for that matter). We do all our mixes on a a good pair of near field monitors. Ultimately, it comes down to personal taste.

 

[Oscar-HiFi]

Check out the Beyerdynamic DT1990 Pro, they would be my suggestion for a reference monitor.

 

[Audioholic123]

It can also depend on the type of music you are working with. I used an Audio Technica ATH-M50X for producing, mixing and mastering electronic music on my computer recently, I also used an Audioquest Dragonfly for a clearer audio output to the headphones. If it's for recording/mixing or monitoring acoustic music, I would recommend the Beyerdynamic DT770 or DT990. Or if your budget allows,- the DT1770 or DT1990 which are obviously a new, more capable iteration of the older 770 and 990.

 

[Bern2]

I've currently got HD600, but wouldn't mind something better. I've always thought the HD600 was a bit warm and woolly - nice for listening to music, but for whatever reason recordings I make with them don't sound that great on other systems. However, I'm reading that the HD600 is supposed to be neutral, so perhaps it's my ears! I've downloaded Sonarworks 4, so perhaps that's all I need.

However, at the weekend I popped into a HiFi shop when I was visiting a city, and despite saying I was probably more interested in open back cans, the salesman demoed three closed backs. They were all plugged into a Moon 430HA - he said the source was at least CD quality.

First up was the Meze 99 Classics - it sounded pleasant and was light an comfy. The bass was pronounced, and not that tight. I'm not sure it let me hear completely into the mix.

Next was a Pioneer SE-Monitor 5. This sounded really weird after the Meze. Bass was non-existent, and the mid-range was quite honky and thin.

The final one was just that - Final Sonorous VI. I can't remember much about this one, other than that the treble seemed quite nice and detailed (could hear an acoustic guitarist breathing etc.) Like the Pioneer it was quite heavy.

At that point I was surprised by how different the headphones sounded, and was beginning to doubt that my ears could pick out 'neutral'.

Also, I'd expected the Moon amp to be fantastic, but I'm not sure that any of the headphones in combination with it were any better than what I already have.

I'm a bit confused about how to pick something which is going to better for me than the HD600.

While I don't own them..I've never heard the Pioneer SEM-5 refer'd to as honky and thin. I'd revisit and USE the equipment that you intend to mix on. Also bring your own source.

Bern

 

[deejayen]

Thanks. I said I'd have to go back with my HD600, and ideally my audio interface and source. However, it might be months before I'm back that way again.

I'd not heard of any of the headphones before I tried them, so wasn't really biased. My brother was with me, and he also listened to them. For general listening he preferred the Meze because of the extra bass etc, but he also thought it probably wasn't accurate. We listened to a Mark Knopfler track which we'd heard on my system the night before.

I'm really curious about the Pioneer and Final headphones now (after reading up on them). There is a review of the Pioneer on headphonereview and they also seem to be saying it sounds unusual, but that you get used to it. They mention it being a bit light on the bass, with some midrange frequencies boosted, and others cut. At the time I was so surprised at how different it was to the Meze. I noticed that Mark Knopfler's voice seemed to have lost its lower frequencies, making it sound thin and almost nasal. Perhaps the headphones needed to be 'burned in', or perhaps they weren't sealed over my ears, although I didn't think there was anything wrong with the fit. I'd really like to hear them again! Perhaps I'd need to try and make an educated guess about a suitable pair of headphones, and buy a pair to try at home.

By the way, I later discovered that velour and leather pads are supplied with the Pioneer. The ones I tried had the velour pads fitted.

I've since read some opposing reviews of the Final Sonorous VI as well. Some say the Sonorous III is quite good for mixing, but others suggest they're all over the place in terms of frequency response.

I mainly record electric guitar based stuff, and usually clean electric guitar. There are also drums and bass, but with more of a country flavour than EDM. Overdriven guitar tones would be more along the lines of ZZ Top rather than metal.

I'm ideally looking for headphones which will let me EQ guitar tones with confidence that the end results will sound good on other systems. Also, ebing able to mix levels between different instruments would also be good (with the HD600 I've found that the balance guitar and drums, for example, doesn't always translate well).

 

[watersedge1234]

Almost every studio I've been in (including my own) has at least one pair of AKG 271 closed cans. They are quite neutral and seem to be a pretty standard item for tracking and for checking mixes. I don't know about mixing on them (or on headphones at all, for that matter). We do all our mixes on a a good pair of near field monitors. Ultimately, it comes down to personal taste.

Agreed. Look into a pair of nearfields for mixing duties. Headphones are useful in their own ways, but headphone mixes almost always struggle with translation. There are some affordable quality nearfield options available, hold onto your 600s and save your money on a new set of cans.

 

[Oscar-HiFi]

Thanks. I said I'd have to go back with my HD600, and ideally my audio interface and source. However, it might be months before I'm back that way again.

I'd not heard of any of the headphones before I tried them, so wasn't really biased. My brother was with me, and he also listened to them. For general listening he preferred the Meze because of the extra bass etc, but he also thought it probably wasn't accurate. We listened to a Mark Knopfler track which we'd heard on my system the night before.

I'm really curious about the Pioneer and Final headphones now (after reading up on them). There is a review of the Pioneer on headphonereview and they also seem to be saying it sounds unusual, but that you get used to it. They mention it being a bit light on the bass, with some midrange frequencies boosted, and others cut. At the time I was so surprised at how different it was to the Meze. I noticed that Mark Knopfler's voice seemed to have lost its lower frequencies, making it sound thin and almost nasal. Perhaps the headphones needed to be 'burned in', or perhaps they weren't sealed over my ears, although I didn't think there was anything wrong with the fit. I'd really like to hear them again! Perhaps I'd need to try and make an educated guess about a suitable pair of headphones, and buy a pair to try at home.

By the way, I later discovered that velour and leather pads are supplied with the Pioneer. The ones I tried had the velour pads fitted.

I've since read some opposing reviews of the Final Sonorous VI as well. Some say the Sonorous III is quite good for mixing, but others suggest they're all over the place in terms of frequency response.

I mainly record electric guitar based stuff, and usually clean electric guitar. There are also drums and bass, but with more of a country flavour than EDM. Overdriven guitar tones would be more along the lines of ZZ Top rather than metal.

I'm ideally looking for headphones which will let me EQ guitar tones with confidence that the end results will sound good on other systems. Also, ebing able to mix levels between different instruments would also be good (with the HD600 I've found that the balance guitar and drums, for example, doesn't always translate well).

I shall repeat... Beyerdynamic DT1990 Pro...

 

[inthere]

When mixing, you NEED multiple sources. Using only one source will usually give you disastrous results. Headphones are a horrible reference because....................everyone has different headphones AND different ears. Headphones are also a completely different way of listening than other sources because they're an on-ear presentation as opposed the "natural" way of listening which is a frontal presentation.

Whatever headphone you use just get used to it and how it translates.

That said, if you're set on finding a *magic headphone* that is *neutral* keep this in mind: "neutral" to an audiophile is usually bass light. So if you use this bass-light headphone as an exclusive source your mixes may turn out bass-heavy and muddy as your ears will compensate. A Bass heavy headphone like Beats your brain compensate by making your mixes thin and sibilant.

I've heard guys mixing with cheap headphones with spectacular results. Laid Back Luke has made a living mixing with crap headphones. I've also seen guys mix with 5k headphones and it translated horribly

The most neutral headphones i've heard tonally in 30 years are the Oppo-PM1 and PM3

 

[Audioholic123]

Nothing wrong with using headphones only, if he just wants to record playing an instrument. If he is making an actual song with other instruments included in the mix, then obviously a proper speaker setup is a must.
It's also important to spend some time getting used to the sound signature/characteristics of whatever headphone he chooses to record/mix with.
As for speakers, I recommend the JBL Control 1; Powerful little speakers with a deep but accurate bass, clear mid's and very impressive, crystal clear, accurate high's.

 

[deejayen]

Thanks. It's a tricky business without a lot of experience. I suppose it's a question of learning your monitoring system, but I've always felt that accurate monitoring is maybe the most important part of recording.

I've been using headphones for recording and mixing because, as far as I can tell from what I've read, my room is less than ideal. It's pretty much an 8ft cube, and because of integrated furniture etc. it's not possible for me to add acoustic treatment.

Having said, that, I've been considering buying some decent monitors with flat response. I was thinking of something along the lines of PSI A14-M which are quite small, but supposed to be be accurate. I know there are alternatives, but something like the PSI would probably be at the top end of my budget.

I keep thinking of the limitations of my room, and swing back to my original goal of an accurate headphone monitoring system. I'm becoming less sure about the feasibilty of a headphone system which will translate, but perhaps using monitors would open up even more problems.

 

[Jerda]

Check out the SonarWorks headphone compatibility list and pick one of them.

 

[Me x3]

In no particular order:

AKG K702
AKG K712 Pro
AKG K812 Pro
Beyerdynamic DT880 Edition 600 Ohm
Beyerdynamic DT880 Pro (250 Ohm)
Beyedynamic DT1990 Pro with Analytical pads
Beyerdynamic T1 (1st Gen)
Beyerdynamic T1 (2nd Gen)
Sennheiser HD800
Sennheiser HD800S

These should serve you well.
They are all quite alike, and different from HD600.

You'll get flatter and more extended bass response along with more sparkle/treble extension and bigger/airier soundstage.

 

[Audioholic123]

FWIW I used Beyerdynamic DT990 Pro 250 ohm a couple of years ago when making an EDM album using FL Studio on my computer and I also used JBL Control 1 speakers.
I had the DT990's connected to my Oehlbach headphone amp which was connected to my computer via usb and the JBL's connected to an Onkyo A-9155 analog amplifier, connected to my computer via analog cable. Nothing fancy but it gets the job done..
I used the headphones 90% of the time..only using the speakers to make sure everything in the recording was panned correctly.

 

[TonySunshine]

I used to mix and master on a pair of HD600's through the sonarworks plugin, but I found that all my mixes sounded too boomy/bassy out of other speakers/headphones/systems. I think I realized I was compensating for the bass roll off of the HD600's in my mix. So now I check my mix on a couple of different headphones (HD600, AKG K550, KNS KRK6400). Then I will check the mix in my truck and then on a google home. I found the AKG K550 mix seems to translate the best. But I also found that mastering and the LUFS make a big difference too in how the mix translates between sources/headphones/speakers