[specthram]

Hi everyone,
 
I am a Sennheiser HD 650 owner, with a computer internal sound card (sound blaster Z) and it's sound great.
Some users on this forum advised me to try it with a great amp. Ok, why not, if it worth it.
At this moment I don't know if I must go to tubes or go to SS. I don't have experience in this, excepted when I was younger i played electric guitar and I prefered the tube amp, for the type of sound.  I'm not sure that I want my computer sounds like a guitar amp.... I watch movies and play games with 3D SBX sound I think it must be "precise". I don't want the movies sounds like a marshall guitar amp.... Tell me if I am wrong and if tube doesn't affect the sound like this. Have you some videos to show me what is really a tubed sound from darkvoice or valhallah 2 ? or whatever... is it great with sbx ? I am hesitating with the Asgard 2 too (SS). For the moment I am lost, and don't want to spend 350$ for something I will regret... I haven't found used amps to test with my headphones :/.
 
Thank you

 

[winders]

My HD 650's sound great with my Schiit Lyr 2 with German tubes (Siemens and Telefunken).

 

[FumblingFoo]

Seconded, I use amperex 7308 vintage gold pins with mine. Though I've heard that tubes all the way vs the lyr 2's preamp only tubes makes for a more tubey sound.

 

[specthram]

I can't afford a lyr 2, way too expensive for me.
If someone who have tubey sound can say to me if the surround in this video allows you to locate the positions properly ? (at 36s) and if he can comparate with SS by the way

thank you

 

[ProtegeManiac]

  At this moment I don't know if I must go to tubes or go to SS. I don't have experience in this, excepted when I was younger i played electric guitar and I prefered the tube amp, for the type of sound.  I'm not sure that I want my computer sounds like a guitar amp...
I don't want the movies sounds like a marshall guitar amp.... Tell me if I am wrong and if tube doesn't affect the sound like this. 

 

Tubes are always great for guitars to make it sound like how you'd want it to sound like, whether Marshall or Mesa Boogie. That said, if the guitar was already recorded to sound like that, adding more of that kind of distortion will just over do everything. It's not like how for example you can render beef fat from a striploin and a duck to cook steak and burgers in then add foie gras to "stack" flavors (I mean, if you want pure beef flavor, just have beef sashimi) because the effects will be full spectrum. The guitar might be warmer and you'd probably love it, but the vocals might come out like Norah Jones on my HD600 and Little Dot MkII - she sounds like she needs to snort spicy chicken soup.

 

That said, not all tube amps do that, much less that all SS amps are "colorless." The distortion of SS amps just tends to go in the opposite direction, although some go the same way as tubes, but overall a properly designed solid state amp just needs to get pushed a lot more before it starts distorting.

 

At the same time not all tube amps will be exactly what is best for high impedane headphones. There is just a tendency for a specific kind of tube amp to do well with them, which is the OTL or output transformerless topology. These deliver a lot of power at 300ohms and deliver a heck of a lot of voltage for the money, primarily due to the lack of a output transformers, which are expensive. You can easily see the difference between OTL designs and Single Ended Push Pull designs - OTL amps have only one transformer (that black box sticking out of a tube amp), two on the dual mono Little Dots (since each channel has its own circuit, but still no output trannies), and you get three on SEPP amps (one for the preamp stage, one each for the amp output stage). The Valhalla2 has two transformers in it but neither works as an output transformer (AFAIK I think the second one runs the tube heater or something).

 

The downside to OTL designs is that they deliver a lot less power at 32ohms (where many lower impedance headphones, like AKG and HiFiMan, have lower sensitivity vs Beyer and Sennheiser at 250ohms to 600ohms) while also having a high output impedance (which can make lower impedance headphones sound like molasses or tin cans). In some cases that might be beneficial to some, like how the Little Dot amps can boost the bass on Grados, or the Valhalla having a relatively very low output impedance (for an OTL amp), but power delivery is still maximized at 300ohms. 

 

A solid state or hybrid amp, properly designed, might not necessarily deliver as much voltage, but while high impedance cans need voltage, they don't need as much of it than low impedance, low sensitivity headphones need power, current, and a low output impedance, so if you plan on using low impedance cans, it's better to get either of those. A hybrid amp with a tube preamp stage that softens the treble a bit (whether it comes that way or you roll tubes to get that effect) is the best compromise.
 

 
I watch movies and play games with 3D SBX sound I think it must be "precise"

 

For simualating surround sound on headphones that's precise enough but just note that unless it can overdo it on 2ch vs what Crossfeed does, which just filters sound across  both channels above a given frequency without overdoing it with reverb effects. That said, not having either leaves you with the classic headphone vs speaker problem of left ear not hearing right driver and vice versa, which is not how speakers operate, resulting in disproportionate imaging (ie cymbals way off to the flanks if not also forward, drum rolls and pianos can be strong in L-C-R but has gaps, etc).
 
 

  Have you some videos to show me what is really a tubed sound from darkvoice or valhallah 2 ? or whatever... is it great with sbx ?

 

You can't rely on that since there is no transducer that has a perfectly flat response. So even if you were listening with a low distortion SS amp your headphones' or speakers' natural response will color the playback audio twice over, and in this case, you'd think it's really bad (if you had Beyers and you listen to Beyers on a Little Dot MkII you might think it's "just right").
 

  I am hesitating with the Asgard 2 too (SS). For the moment I am lost, and don't want to spend 350$ for something I will regret... I haven't found used amps to test with my headphones :/.

 

Personally I can only guarantee that you'd regret the Valhalla if you get low impedance reference headphones. If you use it for casual listening with Grados it'll do fine (the high sensitivity helps stave off some of the distortion also). Otherwise  the sort of people who like Norah Jones sounding like she has a blocked sinus will think the Valhalla is solid state if they can't see the tubes sticking out of it (like in a blind test) while those who listen to SS will just think it distorts in a smoother way than the typical SS amp.

 

If you want something that will have zero problems on low impedance loads, save up and go with the Meier Corda Jazz FF. Prices include worldwide shipping. It's like getting a Violectric, but trading some of the voltage output and line output for Class A operation but you get a high tech potentiometer.

 

[specthram]

thank you for your very detailled answer. I don't understand everything but I understand some ideas.
I use HD 650 (300ohms) headphones only.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

  I use HD 650 (300ohms) headphones only.

 

If you're sure to never use lower impedance cans you can go with OTL amps, just bear in mind that even with high impedance headphones where it will have less distortions due to the output impedance it can still end up with other, intentional distortion patterns, like how Norah Jones sounded like her sinuses were totally caked up with cold on my HD600 and LD MkII. You can replace the tubes on that to decrease that effect but you might as well just get the MkIII to begin with, then roll the tubes later on nearer the end of the service life of the bundled tubes.

Or wait around for the Darkvoice DV336se on Massdrop. You can get it there for $199 - between the price of the two LD's - and the noise floor is a lot lower than either of those other amps. Top end isn't as rolled off when I got to try one nor is the low end too overbearing (note that this wasn't anywhere near a back to back comparo as I sold the LD MkII months before that, but it was the same pair of earpads with just a bit more wear). If you want less of the stereotypical tube effect just try other tubes but mind the gain and other such qualities related to noise so they don't mess up the noise floor, like Mullards, even the reissues if they have an equivalent for that (medium gain, low microphonics, etc).