[evilking]

Is it possible to win with knight, rook and king against rook, rook and king?

We (me and Fritz 11) have been dancing around the board for quite a while now, neither of us gaining much headway. Twice now I've come so very close to a mate, but it seems impossible without removing one of Fritz's rooks.

Any ideas?

EDIT: OK, finally the 50 move message popped up. Obviously I can undo the last 50 moves, so my question now becomes, is it possible to win in 50 moves?

EK

 

[Navyblue]

I am no expert, but I guess it's not possible assuming no dumb move is involved, and it might be possible for the side with 2 rooks to win.

 

[evilking]

Neither side can win, thanks anyway.


Just finished another game, forcing Fritz to resign (hurrah), but, for some reason, Fritz's resignation has been scored as me losing! No idea why that happened, taking away my glory...

EK

 

[Lazarus Short]

Whoever has the two rooks can win, but not the player with rook and knight. Trust me on this, I started playing chess over forty years ago.

Laz

 

[evilking]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lazarus Short /img/forum/go_quote.gif Whoever has the two rooks can win, but not the player with rook and knight. Trust me on this, I started playing chess over forty years ago. Laz

Either side can win if a mistake is made, but dancing around the board for fifty moves for a draw is relatively easy. I ramped up Fritz's engine to the max, and played out a few games. As long as the knight is permanantly defending the king, or you can get the opposition to trade rook for rook, then a draw (seems) inevitable. Obviously I'm not an expert, the undo button was in constant use, but I don't think 50 moves is enough for the rook,rook side to win (assuming the optimal conditions/moves for the rook,knight side).



EK

 

[PhaedrusX]

the two rooks and king should always win in that situation. the key to the endgame is using your king to attack, along with the rooks.

 

[evilking]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhaedrusX /img/forum/go_quote.gif the two rooks and king should always win in that situation. the key to the endgame is using your king to attack, along with the rooks.

Then I must have set the program incorrectly, I thought I had it on full strength during endgame practice...

EK

 

[Lazarus Short]

Quote:

Originally Posted by evilking /img/forum/go_quote.gif Either side can win if a mistake is made, but dancing around the board for fifty moves for a draw is relatively easy. I ramped up Fritz's engine to the max, and played out a few games. As long as the knight is permanantly defending the king, or you can get the opposition to trade rook for rook, then a draw (seems) inevitable. Obviously I'm not an expert, the undo button was in constant use, but I don't think 50 moves is enough for the rook,rook side to win (assuming the optimal conditions/moves for the rook,knight side).EK

I should have said, if against a naked king two rooks can force mate, but if the player with the rook and knight put up a determined defense, checkmate may not be possible. After trading rooks or even knight + rook, mate is no longer possible. I was considering things in isolation.

Laz

 

[Navyblue]

That's what I thought. In cases like this everything has to be let out, including the king. But IMHO the side with the knight and rook is in a tough position not to lose, not to mention to win.

 

[daycart1]

Of course, there will be problem positions where either side can win. But in the general case, this is a draw.