[Dobro]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Currawong /img/forum/go_quote.gif Dobro, allow me to respectfully disagree, as after I got a good amp, my computer's output was clearly seriously lacking to the point that it was obvious a good DAC was necessary to get decent sound. That being said, the two DAC/amps I've used have not been sufficient to get the most out all the headphones I've tried. Either way, I reckon the OP will end up getting both at some stage as I did.

I don't think we are that far apart on this. The reasoning behind my post was based on two things, the HD650's are notoriously power hungry and the OP's budget is limited. If his headphones weren't so power hungry, I'd agree with you, but on his budget, I don't think he can get a DAC /amp combination that will do him much good with the 650s. Better to focus on getting an amp that can feed this hungry beast now and worry about the DAC later when he has more money.

Once he gets a good amp, he may very well feel the need for a DAC upgrade as you did, but he may not. It depends on how noisy his system is and the quality of the DAC in his sound card.

 

[Almoxil]

Completely worth taking a look, even considering it doesn't have an USB port:

Zero 24-bit/192 kHz DAC/Headphone Amp/Pre-amp

Sounds really great with the default opamps, and you can further improve the sound by rolling opamps.

 

[inthecup]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Almoxil /img/forum/go_quote.gif Completely worth taking a look, even considering it doesn't have an USB port: Zero 24-bit/192 kHz DAC/Headphone Amp/Pre-amp Sounds really great with the default opamps, and you can further improve the sound by rolling opamps.

I also thoughts about the 650, would the Pico be enough to drive them. Thanks

 

[Almoxil]

Quote:

Originally Posted by inthecup /img/forum/go_quote.gif I also thoughts about the 650, would the Pico be enough to drive them. Thanks

I don't know, since I have neither a Pico nor a HD650 to try. But I'm pretty sure someone who owns a Pico will chime in and shred some light on the issue.

 

[Dobro]

Quote:

Originally Posted by FallenAngel /img/forum/go_quote.gif ... Just a note: the higher the impedance, the easier they are to drive for the opamp It won't make it as "loud" (considering sensitivity), but as a general idea.

If I understand this correctly, I believe the opposite is true, but I don't think I understand this correctly. Could you clarify please?

 

[Dobro]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Almoxil /img/forum/go_quote.gif Completely worth taking a look, even considering it doesn't have an USB port: Zero 24-bit/192 kHz DAC/Headphone Amp/Pre-amp Sounds really great with the default opamps, and you can further improve the sound by rolling opamps.

Yes, but how well does it do with the 650s, the headphones in question?

 

[xtknight]

I mainly listen to rock MP3s: I just like solid sound with lots of bass and punch, but I am not looking for amazing response at either side of the frequency range. Does this influence the type of amp I should be looking at? I have tried the Grado SR-60 and Sennheiser HD485 (which I believe to be near polar opposites, and no doubt the HD485 did it for me despite the well-renowned SR-60's great reviews). I used the Grados for months before trying the HD485s, and I couldn't have been more impressed after the change with the massive amount of bass and soundstage I gained at about the same price.

Dobro: I like that idea of getting a good amp now and later upgrading the DAC. I use Linux and sometimes it takes awhile for drivers to be developed, so when I'm ready to buy I might have more options for the DAC. Although that's more of a convenience thing; for all intents and purposes, I have a standard Windows machine too.

The Emmeline SR-71 ($400) sounding similar (to one reviewer) to the $110 C&C Box has me a little concerned. Does this mean the C&C Box is exceptional and fit for my needs, or that the SR-71 is overpriced and if I wanted a more expensive amp I should look elsewhere? This was mainly what I was worried about, a lack of scientific basis or consensus on most of the reviews I've seen of amps.

What I'm wondering (and what may be hard to answer) is that, say I just get a cheaper amp like the PIMETA and use it with my Audigy 2. Would it sound like garbage (worse than $1 broken Walmart headphones), alright (about $50 headphones), good (~$100 or about what I have now), or amazing? I'm assuming somewhere between alright and good, but I just want to make sure that's the case, or at least some idea of what to expect in the short term. Remember, I know next to nothing about them.

I want some solution to hold me over for now if or until I decide to upgrade further later. Hopefully that means I can get an amp, be reasonably happy with my Audigy 2, and if I want more amazing sound I can pick up DAC later. It hopefully does not mean my Audigy 2 will just be more unusable with the 650s even with an amp. The Audigy 2 uses the EMU10K2 chipset.

I don't understand what a well-reviewed $100 amp can offer me compared to a well-reviewed $300 one with my Audigy 2, or if the $300 one will even be worth it to someone like me (like car audio/nice bass/power more than crisp/accurate lows/highs) if I do decide to upgrade the DAC later to an Alien DAC or better. I'm well aware I will probably never max out the capabilities of the HD650; I'm looking for something that will give me a decent improvement over my HD485, and I'm wondering what to do. If I had to define "decent improvement" it would be what I got from going from Grado SR-60s to HD485s, if that gives you some kind of idea.

I don't understand what a "portable amp" is compared to a "home amp". I use a PC, so which type should I be looking at? I once heard somebody say a $220 portable amp is not equal to a $220 home amp. This really confused me. I am not sure if I am having trouble communicating properly what I'm looking for, or if my questions are simply hard to answer because my Audigy 2 is rather unknown. It is very hard for me to specify exact what sound characteristics I'm looking for.

Hopefully I will end up with a solution that provides me better sound than the HD485 across the board without significantly regressing in any one area. I feel that the HD485s did this for me vs. the Grados SR-60s, but I'm well aware the SR-60 are probably better at extreme highs/etc.

Either way, thanks. This advice has certainly given me a lot more options than I had to begin with. Hopefully the background info I have given will help you suggest me solutions geared more toward myself.

 

[Dobro]

Quote:

I don't understand what a "portable amp" is compared to a "home amp". I use a PC, so which type should I be looking at? I once heard somebody say a $220 portable amp is not equal to a $220 home amp.

A portable is battery powered and is usually pretty small. A home amp is plugged in to the wall and can be as big as the designer wants it to be. To make an amp portable requires some compromise in size and power. So, as a rule, home amps tend to give you more for your dollar. If you check out the link I provided earlier (yes, its a lot to slog through) there are some good explanations of this. Also I agree with FallenAngel, don't bother with a portable.

I get the impression that you haven't received your 650s yet. If thats the case, you might want to see how they sound to you through the headphone out on your PC. You may well find them better then your 485s in many ways even without the amp. If thats the case, then you can take your time, do more research and hopefully save up some money and get an amp that will serve you well. What I fear is that you might go out and spend money on an amp that does little more then provide you with a volume control.

That said here is an amp that might work for you:

O1 Headphone AMP aka Octavert - there is even a a model available with a DAC in your price range. These can be found on E-Bay. I know nothing about these, I'm just pointing them out as a possibility.

 

[xtknight]

It may be a week or two until I receive the HD650s.

Dobro: Thanks, I will see what happens when I just hook them up directly, certainly, and then think about it from there. You're right that I'd like my amp to be more than just a volume control. I'm considering a well-priced DAC solution like the EMU 0404 down the road. It sounds like it might be right up my alley. I just don't know if it will have the power to drive the HD650s.

 

[Dobro]

Quote:

Originally Posted by xtknight /img/forum/go_quote.gif It may be a week or two until I receive the HD650s. Dobro: Thanks, I will see what happens when I just hook them up directly, certainly, and then think about it from there. You're right that I'd like my amp to be more than just a volume control. I'm considering a well-priced DAC solution like the EMU 0404 down the road. It sounds like it might be right up my alley. I just don't know if it will have the power to drive the HD650s.

Sounds like a plan. Perhaps Currawong was more right then I realized. Your finances being what they are getting a decent DAC like the 0404 first makes sense. The amp part probably won't be up to the 650 challenge but it it will probably be better then your PC's Headphone out the DAC should serve you very well. Then you can get the amp when your ready.

Good luck with it!

 

[iHead]

Little Dot MARK III Welcome to Audiophilechina

CORDA ARIETTA
Meier Audio

 

[iHead]

Welcome to Audiophilechina

USB DAC+ amp

 

[Spunky8]

I read the review on the Zero. But, according to the review, the inputs are limited to optical, etc. Does that mean that I could not hook my iPod up to the Zero? My iPod contains mostly Apple Lossless rips, so the quality is decent. I'm looking for a relatively inexpensive amp for my desktop to that I can plug in my phones and listen with my Senn 595's. Is there a way to get the Zero to work with that system? For input, I could either use my Apple laptop or my iPod.

And, please explain what the "DAC" alternative is? I'm assuming it's some type of upgrade for computer listening, but (as a relative Newbie), I'm not conversant with all the lingo.

Thanks.

 

[xtknight]

Well the HD650s arrived and honestly they sound great out of my Audigy. (Not that an amp or new DAC wouldn't help but let's not get into that any deeper.)

I'm thrilled with their performance, actually. The flatter frequency response is really nice and means I don't have to keep messing with the volume which I had a tendency to do with the HD485s. They don't have as much bass but they aren't as veily either which is good. I'll get used to that. It took me a week to get used to the SR60s and HD485s and I've only had a day on these and I'm already loving them. Vocals sound a good amount better though (for lack of a better way to word it, people sound more like humans). When there's a lot of sound, the HD650 is able to distinguish between the heavy instruments and the vocals better. Vocals are crisp and not noisy or clippy. The bass is quite punchy still and quite accurate, while the sound is neutral enough that I can hear everything without certain parts being exaggerated. Perhaps these headphones are best for classical or instrumental music but they sound great on rock too.

Like I said I'm very happy and people should be aware that an amp is not NECESSARY or VITAL for listening to these. You can get them, and upgrade later down the road to make them even better. They're still better than my HD485s by a margin enough that I don't feel like I need to buy anything else at this point. If I were to upgrade then obviously I'd start looking at replacing my Audigy2 and not the headphones.

In any case thank you for the suggestions and if I ever decide I want to upgrade further then I will take heed to your advice.

 

[Kilane]

I can't speak to the Senns specifically, I can say that you can get a number of decent desk amps in your range. The Cute Beyond is a solid amp, as was the Original Master. It made a difference going from unamped to amped, but hardly the difference going from SR 80's to DT 990's or Ultrasone 750s. It may sound like garbage in comparison, but you can certainly get the gist.

My advice is amp them first, the audigy isn't a terrible source... you probably can get an ESI Juli or an outboard DAC down the line.