[Donald ZH]

HK Market- Now comes with grounding box for DAP. Anyone tried with their N8ii?

 

[Alexzander]

HK Market- Now comes with grounding box for DAP. Anyone tried with their N8ii?

Oh lol you’ve made my day

 

[ECKHUAAA]

Thanks a lot. I will test it.
How about this white blink when the DAP is waking up ?

I have not seen that !

 

[tone.texture.soul]

Just spent the few hours going through the different music apps, and I am quite astonished to hear the fairly huge differences in the way they play back hi-res audio. I thought to share my experiences, in case others are interested.

1- Cayin Music - essentially a clone of Hiby Music with a slightly different theme and skin. This is the most warm and romantic of the players. Sounds good, but lacking some detail, impact to my ears. Pretty warm and gooey, which for some could be a good fit.

2- HiBy Music is more open, like a veil has been lifted off the Cayin, more detail, better bass reach, mids are more crisp without losing the more romantic vibe. I definitely prefer this over the Cayin app.

3- UAPP is even better. It has even more veil lifting, more Hi-fi sounding while still super musical and engaging, and to my ears more "correct" keeping in mind I am a recording engineer. Bass has deeper reach and more texture, high end is quite a bit more open and micro details are more present. The most noticeable changes occur in the higher frequencies, more air and nuance. Almost like going from BA drivers to EST, in that the smallest details are more delicate and space around them is more expansive. Detail retrieval is on another level. I really like the interface too, very clean and able to stream with Qobuz or Tidal if needed.

4 - Neutron, wow. This sounds completely different again. I had to go back and forth between this and UAPP about 10 times to make sure I wasn't hearing things. It's more open and unveiled yet again. The high end has even more micro details and air, I am hearing things in the upper stratosphere I didn't hear with the other apps. The mids are more crisp, transients too. Bass again has deeper reach and some extra rumble too. Mids might be slightly more forward, and slightly more brightness overall. Very Hi-fi, very clean. The interface is unfortunately quite old fashioned and clunky, not as pretty as UAPP, some may not care about this.

Edit - plesee keep in mind that both UAPP and Neutron are paid apps.

I can't decide which one I prefer, UAPP keeps the utter musical nature of the N8ii with lovely details, and while Neutron has more detail it can, for some tracks, border almost on sterile. I know I am really splitting hairs here, but it's a toss up. Neutron has a slight loss of the romantic vibe, this is full on Hi-fi tonality. UAPP might just hold the balance between music and detail better of the two for my ears. If I had to make a generalization, UAPP sounds like (in comparison to Neutron) the N8ii with Tube timbre selected, and Neutron leans a bit more towards N8ii with SS timbre.

I had no idea apps could have such a big impact on the sound, goes to show all apps are not made equal. But it all comes down to preference - everyone hears and likes it differently. One thing is certain, the N8ii is one fanatic DAP.

 

[AnalogandDigital]

Just spent the few hours going through the different music apps, and I am quite astonished to hear the fairly huge differences in the way they play back hi-res audio. I thought to share my experiences, in case others are interested.

1- Cayin Music - essentially a clone of Hiby Music with a slightly different theme and skin. This is the most warm and romantic of the players. Sounds good, but lacking some detail, impact to my ears. Pretty warm and gooey, which for some could be a good fit.

2- HiBy Music is more open, like a veil has been lifted off the Cayin, more detail, better bass reach, mids are more crisp without losing the more romantic vibe. I definitely prefer this over the Cayin app.

3- UAPP is even better. It has even more veil lifting, more Hi-fi sounding while still super musical and engaging, and to my ears more "correct" keeping in mind I am a recording engineer. Bass has deeper reach and more texture, high end is quite a bit more open and micro details are more present. The most noticeable changes occur in the higher frequencies, more air and nuance. Almost like going from BA drivers to EST, in that the smallest details are more delicate and space around them is more expansive. Detail retrieval is on another level. I really like the interface too, very clean and able to stream with Qobuz or Tidal if needed.

4 - Neutron, wow. This sounds completely different again. I had to go back and forth between this and UAPP about 10 times to make sure I wasn't hearing things. It's more open and unveiled yet again. The high end has even more micro details and air, I am hearing things in the upper stratosphere I didn't hear with the other apps. The mids are more crisp, transients too. Bass again has deeper reach and some extra rumble too. Mids might be slightly more forward, and slightly more brightness overall. Very Hi-fi, very clean. The interface is unfortunately quite old fashioned and clunky, not as pretty as UAPP, some may not care about this.

Edit - plesee keep in mind that both UAPP and Neutron are paid apps.

I can't decide which one I prefer, UAPP keeps the utter musical nature of the N8ii with lovely details, and while Neutron has more detail it can, for some tracks, border almost on sterile. I know I am really splitting hairs here, but it's a toss up. Neutron has a slight loss of the romantic vibe, this is full on Hi-fi tonality. UAPP might just hold the balance between music and detail better of the two for my ears. If I had to make a generalization, UAPP sounds like (in comparison to Neutron) the N8ii with Tube timbre selected, and Neutron leans a bit more towards N8ii with SS timbre.

I had no idea apps could have such a big impact on the sound, goes to show all apps are not made equal. But it all comes down to preference - everyone hears and likes it differently. One thing is certain, the N8ii is one fanatic DAP.

I have UApp and Neutron on all my audio toys
Since one is streaming
The other is not

 

[KPzypher]

Just spent the few hours going through the different music apps, and I am quite astonished to hear the fairly huge differences in the way they play back hi-res audio. I thought to share my experiences, in case others are interested.

1- Cayin Music - essentially a clone of Hiby Music with a slightly different theme and skin. This is the most warm and romantic of the players. Sounds good, but lacking some detail, impact to my ears. Pretty warm and gooey, which for some could be a good fit.

2- HiBy Music is more open, like a veil has been lifted off the Cayin, more detail, better bass reach, mids are more crisp without losing the more romantic vibe. I definitely prefer this over the Cayin app.

3- UAPP is even better. It has even more veil lifting, more Hi-fi sounding while still super musical and engaging, and to my ears more "correct" keeping in mind I am a recording engineer. Bass has deeper reach and more texture, high end is quite a bit more open and micro details are more present. The most noticeable changes occur in the higher frequencies, more air and nuance. Almost like going from BA drivers to EST, in that the smallest details are more delicate and space around them is more expansive. Detail retrieval is on another level. I really like the interface too, very clean and able to stream with Qobuz or Tidal if needed.

4 - Neutron, wow. This sounds completely different again. I had to go back and forth between this and UAPP about 10 times to make sure I wasn't hearing things. It's more open and unveiled yet again. The high end has even more micro details and air, I am hearing things in the upper stratosphere I didn't hear with the other apps. The mids are more crisp, transients too. Bass again has deeper reach and some extra rumble too. Mids might be slightly more forward, and slightly more brightness overall. Very Hi-fi, very clean. The interface is unfortunately quite old fashioned and clunky, not as pretty as UAPP, some may not care about this.

Edit - plesee keep in mind that both UAPP and Neutron are paid apps.

I can't decide which one I prefer, UAPP keeps the utter musical nature of the N8ii with lovely details, and while Neutron has more detail it can, for some tracks, border almost on sterile. I know I am really splitting hairs here, but it's a toss up. Neutron has a slight loss of the romantic vibe, this is full on Hi-fi tonality. UAPP might just hold the balance between music and detail better of the two for my ears. If I had to make a generalization, UAPP sounds like (in comparison to Neutron) the N8ii with Tube timbre selected, and Neutron leans a bit more towards N8ii with SS timbre.

I had no idea apps could have such a big impact on the sound, goes to show all apps are not made equal. But it all comes down to preference - everyone hears and likes it differently. One thing is certain, the N8ii is one fanatic DAP.

I tried to like Neutron and downloaded the app several times, but just couldn't get past the UI. I stick to UAPP, because it's also integrated with streaming apps like Tidal/Qobuz.

 

[audionewbi]

HK Market- Now comes with grounding box for DAP. Anyone tried with their N8ii?

Isn't the case for N8ii used as a ground?

My experience with such products are very negative.

Only one I tried which did its work is the ifi groundhog+. Be very cautious of such products, they are simply produced with no science behind them.

 

[scottm18]

The interface (of Neutron) is unfortunately quite old fashioned and clunky, not as pretty as UAPP, some may not care about this.

It's pretty obvious now that they purposely keep it that way...cuz I haven't noticed a change in years & I still can't get used to it . I think I agree that Neutron does sound a little better but UAPP has more features including slick Qobuz integration for notably better sound than their app. Plus developer Davy is incredibly responsive to any issues.

Side note: apparently with some older Cayin players, DSD tracks have been known to pop and click during navigation on UAPP...to the point where Davy specifically mentions it under the options on the N8ii. I definitely heard it do that when I was using an OTG hard drive but much less after moving over to SD card. I won't be fully over to a good SD card till this weekend...but I'm working directly with him and all the variables involved. For instance is it just an DSD ISO file or a regular DSD file affected, does DSD 64 play fine but not DSD128, etc...to see if it still continues on the new player.

Needless to say, the N8ii will play DSD files natively in UAPP, with no unwanted conversion done. Not every player can say that-- including the Fiio M17 which is definitely confirmed DSD is converted to PCM. My go-to track is Louis Armstrong "Wonderful World", which has an incredible DSD remaster where the multitrack vocals just sound amazing. I took a trip to Japan a few years ago loaded up on some of the best SACDs around while I was there--including some unique "Best Of" discs only available overseas. More on that particular track later when I talk about my setup--but suffice to say I was up waaaay too late yesterday listening to my collection

It may not matter to a lot of people...but I'm almost 100% DSD in my local media files so conversion/non-conversion (and unfortunately pops & clicks) certainly does to me.

 

[tone.texture.soul]

I tried to like Neutron and downloaded the app several times, but just couldn't get past the UI. I stick to UAPP, because it's also integrated with streaming apps like Tidal/Qobuz.

Yeah, I know what you mean, the UI is ugly indeed. I downloaded it several times as well, trying to get over the visual, but when I finally heard it I bought it. $8 is nothing compared to what we pay for our gear.

After going through all the options and adjusting the UI as best I could I got it much better ie, full-screen, much smaller text, no crazy icons, hiding the nav buttons while listening, and it's a lot better.

A few more notes on the tonality, Neutron almost sounds like a secondary P+, in that it heightens dynamics, pushes the mids a bit forward while adding a touch of sparkle and high end energy, bass is flushed out some too. But it doesn't add that dash of musicality the real P+ does. I'm glad I bought it, I will AB some more when my ears are fresh.

 

[Doug2507]

I'd love to use neutron as a daily but the 80s neon theme is just too much for me, along with the clunky / chunky / non intuitive icons. Its one app that's made me realise how much importance I put on the user / UI experience (one thing I actually really liked with M9!). If he could pull that into the present with a more current interface then I would probably use it the majority of the time. I've been using cayin mostly unless listening to tidal (UAPP) but will probably put some effort into using my redbook through UAPP going forward.

 

[ECKHUAAA]

The interface (of Neutron) is unfortunately quite old fashioned and clunky, not as pretty as UAPP, some may not care about this.

It's pretty obvious now that they purposely keep it that way...cuz I haven't noticed a change in years & I still can't get used to it . I think I agree that Neutron does sound a little better but UAPP has more features including slick Qobuz integration for notably better sound than their app. Plus developer Davy is incredibly responsive to any issues.

Side note: apparently with some older Cayin players, DSD tracks have been known to pop and click during navigation on UAPP...to the point where Davy specifically mentions it under the options on the N8ii. I definitely heard it do that when I was using an OTG hard drive but much less after moving over to SD card. I won't be fully over to a good SD card till this weekend...but I'm working directly with him and all the variables involved. For instance is it just an DSD ISO file or a regular DSD file affected, does DSD 64 play fine but not DSD128, etc...to see if it still continues on the new player.

Needless to say, the N8ii will play DSD files natively in UAPP, with no unwanted conversion done. Not every player can say that-- including the Fiio M17 which is definitely confirmed DSD is converted to PCM. My go-to track is Louis Armstrong "Wonderful World", which has an incredible DSD remaster where the multitrack vocals just sound amazing. I took a trip to Japan a few years ago loaded up on some of the best SACDs around while I was there--including some unique "Best Of" discs only available overseas. More on that particular track later when I talk about my setup--but suffice to say I was up waaaay too late yesterday listening to my collection

It may not matter to a lot of people...but I'm almost 100% DSD in my local media files so conversion/non-conversion (and unfortunately pops & clicks) certainly does to me.

FYI guys NativeDSD.com has ongoing sales 15% off every item till June

 

[111MilesToGo]

Just spent the few hours going through the different music apps, and I am quite astonished to hear the fairly huge differences in the way they play back hi-res audio. I thought to share my experiences, in case others are interested.

1- Cayin Music - essentially a clone of Hiby Music with a slightly different theme and skin. This is the most warm and romantic of the players. Sounds good, but lacking some detail, impact to my ears. Pretty warm and gooey, which for some could be a good fit.

2- HiBy Music is more open, like a veil has been lifted off the Cayin, more detail, better bass reach, mids are more crisp without losing the more romantic vibe. I definitely prefer this over the Cayin app.

3- UAPP is even better. It has even more veil lifting, more Hi-fi sounding while still super musical and engaging, and to my ears more "correct" keeping in mind I am a recording engineer. Bass has deeper reach and more texture, high end is quite a bit more open and micro details are more present. The most noticeable changes occur in the higher frequencies, more air and nuance. Almost like going from BA drivers to EST, in that the smallest details are more delicate and space around them is more expansive. Detail retrieval is on another level. I really like the interface too, very clean and able to stream with Qobuz or Tidal if needed.

4 - Neutron, wow. This sounds completely different again. I had to go back and forth between this and UAPP about 10 times to make sure I wasn't hearing things. It's more open and unveiled yet again. The high end has even more micro details and air, I am hearing things in the upper stratosphere I didn't hear with the other apps. The mids are more crisp, transients too. Bass again has deeper reach and some extra rumble too. Mids might be slightly more forward, and slightly more brightness overall. Very Hi-fi, very clean. The interface is unfortunately quite old fashioned and clunky, not as pretty as UAPP, some may not care about this.

Edit - plesee keep in mind that both UAPP and Neutron are paid apps.

I can't decide which one I prefer, UAPP keeps the utter musical nature of the N8ii with lovely details, and while Neutron has more detail it can, for some tracks, border almost on sterile. I know I am really splitting hairs here, but it's a toss up. Neutron has a slight loss of the romantic vibe, this is full on Hi-fi tonality. UAPP might just hold the balance between music and detail better of the two for my ears. If I had to make a generalization, UAPP sounds like (in comparison to Neutron) the N8ii with Tube timbre selected, and Neutron leans a bit more towards N8ii with SS timbre.

I had no idea apps could have such a big impact on the sound, goes to show all apps are not made equal. But it all comes down to preference - everyone hears and likes it differently. One thing is certain, the N8ii is one fanatic DAP.

Yeah, I know what you mean, the UI is ugly indeed. I downloaded it several times as well, trying to get over the visual, but when I finally heard it I bought it. $8 is nothing compared to what we pay for our gear.

After going through all the options and adjusting the UI as best I could I got it much better ie, full-screen, much smaller text, no crazy icons, hiding the nav buttons while listening, and it's a lot better.

A few more notes on the tonality, Neutron almost sounds like a secondary P+, in that it heightens dynamics, pushes the mids a bit forward while adding a touch of sparkle and high end energy, bass is flushed out some too. But it doesn't add that dash of musicality the real P+ does. I'm glad I bought it, I will AB some more when my ears are fresh.

Awesome work and findings! Thank you.

Two questions, please: What gear (besides the N8ii) did you use? I presume you set up all apps to replay in the purest way possible, no DSP or effects applied - correct?

So, in summary, you say that the apps are all doing things differently. Maybe none of the apps does simply do a bit-perfect replay. Maybe some apps introduce less alterations to the bits and bytes, some introduce more alterations. Do you have ideas as to the whys? Probably one should keep in mind that it‘s not only the apps being involved, but also Android with its myriad of audio stack components involved in sound reproduction.

 

[yaps66]

Just spent the few hours going through the different music apps, and I am quite astonished to hear the fairly huge differences in the way they play back hi-res audio. I thought to share my experiences, in case others are interested.

1- Cayin Music - essentially a clone of Hiby Music with a slightly different theme and skin. This is the most warm and romantic of the players. Sounds good, but lacking some detail, impact to my ears. Pretty warm and gooey, which for some could be a good fit.

2- HiBy Music is more open, like a veil has been lifted off the Cayin, more detail, better bass reach, mids are more crisp without losing the more romantic vibe. I definitely prefer this over the Cayin app.

3- UAPP is even better. It has even more veil lifting, more Hi-fi sounding while still super musical and engaging, and to my ears more "correct" keeping in mind I am a recording engineer. Bass has deeper reach and more texture, high end is quite a bit more open and micro details are more present. The most noticeable changes occur in the higher frequencies, more air and nuance. Almost like going from BA drivers to EST, in that the smallest details are more delicate and space around them is more expansive. Detail retrieval is on another level. I really like the interface too, very clean and able to stream with Qobuz or Tidal if needed.

4 - Neutron, wow. This sounds completely different again. I had to go back and forth between this and UAPP about 10 times to make sure I wasn't hearing things. It's more open and unveiled yet again. The high end has even more micro details and air, I am hearing things in the upper stratosphere I didn't hear with the other apps. The mids are more crisp, transients too. Bass again has deeper reach and some extra rumble too. Mids might be slightly more forward, and slightly more brightness overall. Very Hi-fi, very clean. The interface is unfortunately quite old fashioned and clunky, not as pretty as UAPP, some may not care about this.

Edit - plesee keep in mind that both UAPP and Neutron are paid apps.

I can't decide which one I prefer, UAPP keeps the utter musical nature of the N8ii with lovely details, and while Neutron has more detail it can, for some tracks, border almost on sterile. I know I am really splitting hairs here, but it's a toss up. Neutron has a slight loss of the romantic vibe, this is full on Hi-fi tonality. UAPP might just hold the balance between music and detail better of the two for my ears. If I had to make a generalization, UAPP sounds like (in comparison to Neutron) the N8ii with Tube timbre selected, and Neutron leans a bit more towards N8ii with SS timbre.

I had no idea apps could have such a big impact on the sound, goes to show all apps are not made equal. But it all comes down to preference - everyone hears and likes it differently. One thing is certain, the N8ii is one fanatic DAP.

Excellent summary! Kudos! This is a really useful comparison for those wanting to explore the different music apps. My personal favourite is UAPP. Not perfect but by far the most user friendly! Having said that, I have not tried Neutron but going on your review, I probably will not like this app given its clunkiness (if that is a word) and sterile leanings!

 

[scottm18]

Probably one should keep in mind that it‘s not only the apps being involved, but also Android with its myriad of audio stack components involved in sound reproduction.

Keep in mind the Cayin specifically should be *removing* this incredibly annoying trait of Android....for all apps. I think it's more that dedicated developers like Davy of UAPP and also Neutron keep refining their programs to sound the best they possibly can

One more quick note versus the Hiby & Cayin music apps. The Hiby app has the lauded MSEB equalizer/ sound shaper that's really supposed to make a difference. You should at least check that out with all files other than non-modifiable DSD

 

[Andykong]

Probably one should keep in mind that it‘s not only the apps being involved, but also Android with its myriad of audio stack components involved in sound reproduction.

Keep in mind the Cayin specifically should be *removing* this incredibly annoying trait of Android....for all apps. I think it's more that dedicated developers like Davy of UAPP and also Neutron keep refining their programs to sound the best they possibly can

One more quick note versus the Hiby & Cayin music apps. The Hiby app has the lauded MSEB equalizer/ sound shaper that's really supposed to make a difference. You should at least check that out with all files other than non-modifiable DSD

We can only minimize the tie between our own Music Player App and Android OS, we can't do that for other music App. When a third-party app is updated to another version, all previous optimization will be disqualified. We cannot limit the service call between third-party applications and the Android system core, you never know when will they add a new feature that required a service call that we have "removed" for optimization reasons.