[trollbearpig]

Yeah I also find WE a little dull in the treble (its all in context, its still one of the best sounding pieces of gear in existence), apparently they sharpen up with more hours on them but to be honest I spend most time with EML XLS, they have more treble energy and walk the line just shy of being fatiguing which I really appreciate. Their party trick is note density tho, especially in the bass. They sound thundering yet tight and punchy.

Yeah I could see that, have you also looked into the mesh version of the EMLs? Those also come with a long warranty right? I’ve heard good things about the build quality

 

[krude]

Yeah I could see that, have you also looked into the mesh version of the EMLs? Those also come with a long warranty right? I’ve heard good things about the build quality

I only tried (and own) the XLS from EMLs, but I will most likely give more of them a try.

5 year warranty and built like a tank. Thick glass, larger than Elrogs, heavy and industrial looking massive plates.

Not sure how the other ones compare but I would be surprised if the build quality would be lesser in any way.

Also XLSs look really imposing in the amp. Even my wife mentions from time to time that they look really nice

 

[ArkNerevar]

I'm also very interested in the mesh plates based on the reviews and my own experiences with mesh plate driver tubes, they have a unique sound to them.

I've asked @Andykong before if we can use the EML mesh plates in our amps, they do have a bit different parameters to standard non-mesh 300Bs so you do have to know if your amp can use them.

 

[krude]

I'm also very interested in the mesh plates based on the reviews and my own experiences with mesh plate driver tubes, they have a unique sound to them.

I've asked @Andykong before if we can use the EML mesh plates in our amps, they do have a bit different parameters to standard non-mesh 300Bs so you do have to know if your amp can use them.

I've been reading on EML website about the mesh and I also have no idea

 

[jamato8]

Yeah I also find WE a little dull in the treble (its all in context, its still one of the best sounding pieces of gear in existence), apparently they sharpen up with more hours on them but to be honest I spend most time with EML XLS, they have more treble energy and walk the line just shy of being fatiguing which I really appreciate. Their party trick is note density tho, especially in the bass. They sound thundering yet tight and punchy.

I have many hours on the WE now and wouldn't want much more treble energy but if needed, easy to change that with the driver tubes. A very natural dynamic tube, IMO. Listen to live music and what we want from our headphones or IEMs, is beyond what you hear naturally but having more "energy" in the delivery, helps to decide the brain. :^)

Transparency is also greater most of the time in well done recorded music than that of live but again, more transparency in live music is also a joy.

 

[jamato8]

I'm also very interested in the mesh plates based on the reviews and my own experiences with mesh plate driver tubes, they have a unique sound to them.

I've asked @Andykong before if we can use the EML mesh plates in our amps, they do have a bit different parameters to standard non-mesh 300Bs so you do have to know if your amp can use them.

I need to look at the specs. They have more current draw or very different operating points? Seems if they are a 300B type, they should fit within the parameters of a 300B or specialized or modified amps would be needed for them.

 

[krude]

I need to look at the specs. They have more current draw or very different operating points? Seems if they are a 300B type, they should fit within the parameters of a 300B or specialized or modified amps would be needed for them.

Maybe you can make more sense of what they are trying to say http://www.emissionlabs.com/datasheets/EML300B-mesh.html

 

[incredulousity]

Also is gold lion decent in its own right ?

Yes, but inferior by a lot to the AN4300E, and even farther below Elrog, WE.

 

[ArkNerevar]

current draw or very different operating points? Seems if they are a 300B type, they should fit within the parameters of a 300B or specialized or modified amps would be needed for them

It's the Anode dissipation wattage, the mesh can do a maximum of 28 watts, a recommend for long life 26 watts and typical usage recommendation of 22 watts.

So quite a bit lower than what a standard (WE) 300B is capable of pulling, ofc many amps are already biased for a lower draw than the maximum both to preserve tube life and to give more of that "Triode" sound that many want.

If I had to guess I would say our amp can use them, it's a headlamp that puts out a maximum of 8 watts from the speaker taps, that's Japanese amp territory, they always bias there 300Bs much lower than the maximum, if you want a 300B pushed to the max you get a Coincident Frankenstein, this (our HA-300s) most certainly ain't a Frankenstein.

 

[jamato8]

Maybe you can make more sense of what they are trying to say http://www.emissionlabs.com/datasheets/EML300B-mesh.html

The tube is downrated. It will have limited applications and that is unfortunate as I like mesh plates, when done right. So you would have to ask Cayin what the operating points are but they should list (I haven't looked) at the plate dissipation of the 300B. That would tell you how much current is used but if in the range of the mesh plate tube, then it should be good to go. But because the tube is lower rated, Cayin, understanbly, may not want to endorse it to use. That is their call. But the tube has a much lower rating.

And, having built my own equipment, I do not agree with the following. It really depends upon the tube type.

"With all tubes, there is the balance between best sound and highest output power. There is no way to get both out of a tube at the same time, and 300B is no exception."

 

[smodtactical]

Its a tough choice. Spend a lot more on WE 300b and NOS input tubes and see how far this amp can go... or sell and move on to something else.

 

[jamato8]

Its a tough choice. Spend a lot more on WE 300b and NOS input tubes and see how far this amp can go... or sell and move on to something else.

Tubes are part of the circuit. You can so easily change the circuit with tubes. So what would you move to, solid state? Not many choices on changing circuits there unless it used op amps and there are limitations with op amps, though some very good op amps are available but how many amps that allow for the changing of that part of the circuit? And I prefer discrete circuits and while there are plug and play discrete circuits, there are few choices.

 

[krude]

Its a tough choice. Spend a lot more on WE 300b and NOS input tubes and see how far this amp can go... or sell and move on to something else.

I would get some NOS quads first to get the taste of what's possible. Did you burn the amp in? It really changes a lot in the first 200h or so.

 

[mfgillia]

Its a tough choice. Spend a lot more on WE 300b and NOS input tubes and see how far this amp can go... or sell and move on to something else.

What do you not like about the way it sounds now? What are you trying to improve?

 

[idairyou]

Its a tough choice. Spend a lot more on WE 300b and NOS input tubes and see how far this amp can go... or sell and move on to something else.

I hear you. If you're the kind of person who is always hunting for a different sound, then at some point (no matter what tube amp you have) you will probably spend more money on the tubes than on the amp. Being a 300B amp just magnifies the costs, when a budget pair of 300Bs costs $400 USD. The 22DE4s are still cheap, but it's a matter of finding them.

While I don't believe in burn in on SS or cables that others do, I do believe in burn in on tubes and to a lesser extent the drivers on headphones. I'm a man of contradictions.

I would get to that 200-hour mark before making a choice.

I personally own both with the Bliss being my SS of choice. I switch back and forth depending on the headphone, mood or just the time of day. It's a nice choice to have, but I know it's not a choice everyone can have or afford. I remember starting my career in IT paying rent, saving for a house, and family. Luxuries like audio setups were just dreams.

Even now I will not go completely nuts buying 10k gear, because I'm thinking of retirement in 10 to 15 years.

One day though I will win with a Lottery quick pick.